EAG, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

Ferrari owners tend to be deeper pocketed and for the most part ... know less about cars.

The fact the cars themselves were NOT the best value when new and the owners STILL bought it tends to tell you that the owners don't really care about shelling out money and aren't tight with the pursestrings

 

You must not be on this forum much

 

Not sure which part you're referring to but comeon, the "average" ferrari owner for sure cares less about value than say the "average" porsche/mclaren/lambo owner.

Ferraris have a 30+% gross margin and are objectively less capable than a 911 or VAG group R8/Huracan.

People don't do that unless they don't know, or don't care.

 

If by “capable” you mean lap times or braking distance etc, you are missing the point for a lot of us. I couldn’t tell you those stats for mine and frankly don’t care. It’s more about the design aesthetic, the sound, the distinctive user features, the more intimate community etc. I left Porsche for Ferrari precisely because of those immeasurables, which I find more pleasing overall. And yes one pays a price for that.

 

When asked "Why do you rob banks, Willie Sutton responded: Because that is where all the money is".

 

Disagree. This entire site is filled with "average" Ferrari owners that are enthusiasts, probably beyond the other brands you've mentioned. They can tell you more about the founder, the racing heritage, the vintage models, etc. than most other "enthusiasts" than almost any other brand.

 

That is indeed what I mean

I am not "missing" the point in the sense that I don't see/understand why we all bought ferraris. I am saying we all bought ferraris in spite of ferrari NOT being the "best" in those regards, hence we must be getting something "else" out of it.

The history, the community, the signalling effect, the beauty, etc.

What I AM saying is that there's a high degree of correlation between "caring about the fundamental/capability" and "engineering knowledge/competence"

In much the same way that people who have a strong degree of understanding of mechanical watchs and really care about the engineering of the movements and whatnot are usually NOT the type of people who buy Panerai.

I'm not saying Ferrari is better or worse than Porsche or that if you have a Ferrari you are somehow by default not competent in understanding automotive mechanics.

I'm just trying to answer the question "why do people who try to scam supercar owners try to go after Ferrari owners". Because Ferrari owners PROBABLY as a whole have more money and less knowledge and care less about these things.

The fact that Ferraris are generally the most expensive models within their particular class/niche itself is a reason to go after Ferrari owners. It's a lot harder to convince someone to pay 10k on a transmission swap/conversion on 50k car than on a 100k car.

Hell, I'm not even that convinced that these scams "usually" target Ferrari owners as Shark01 suggested. I'm convinced it happens in all high-end "anything". You just notice the ones happening in your community because you're IN that community.

I'm sure there are loads of porsche targetted, lambo targetted scams/overpriced junk/etc. too but unless you have one of em, you probably don't know/care about it.

 

They're not, this stuff happens all the time in the automotive enthusiasts world. This is just your bubble at the moment.

 

The watch analogy is spot on, an Apple Watch would serve an infinitely more useful purpose for me but I will never wear one over my formal Rolex's and casual breitlings.

 

Firstly, The average Fchat member is definitely not the average Ferrari owner.

Secondly, knowing about the founder, racing heritage, vintage models, etc. mean jack **** to knowing anything about automotive/mechanical engineering. It's like a baseball nut who can rattle loads of stats off his head .... yea sure but that doesn't mean diddly squat to their ability to throw a ball or how good they are at bat.

It's like Feynman said (well his dad), "You can learn the name of this bird in all the languages past, present, and future and even after learning all that, you'll still know absolutely nothing about the bird itself".

While I'm sure knowing when Enzo founded the company and how many 250GTOs there are still running in the world and how many freckles Leclerc has on his left buttcheek would make for interesting small talk at a ferrari club social gathering, it doesn't translate to knowing how a differential operates or why simply "upping the boost" on your turbo won't neccesarily make more power, etc.

Most "enthusiasts" in most fields know surprisingly little about that field. Most people who are baseball fans don't know what the Magnus effect is and how it's responsible for curveballs. Most people who are into road cycling don't know dick about how much, where friction in the drivetrain comes from or what proportion of their drag is coming from aero vs rolling resistance, etc.

Most of us from childhood are taught that knowing lots of facts and figures means you understand something and if you like something you should know as many facts and figures about it no matter how dumb they are. Like....that's the entire point/moral of the Moneyball/Bill James/baseball stats "thing".

 

Yeah

It wouldn't be "wrong" to say ANY mechanical watch is "bad" at time keeping, no matter how many COSC, METAS, whatever ratings it has. A 10 dollar timex tells the time more accurately.

My criticism in Panerai was deeper though. Most watch people know mechanical watches don't tell the time better. But we tell ourselves that oh it's the artistry and craftsmanship behind it .... which is true ... if you were buying a Patek .... but a Panerai is literal junk. They've been caught red handed multiple times for putting off the shelf parts from ETA (the equivalent of swiss watch world harbourfreight) and putting it in their high end models with minimal decoration/finishing.

 

@KnifeEdge2k1 interesting insight. I'm convinced the only way to know a Ferrari is to actually be one with it. The closest anyone can get to that state is to actually have direct experience of it. Likewise, to really know the bird one has to be one with it. Reading and learning facts and figures can only take you so far.

 

This goes with many things. As great as it is having a world of information at our finger tips, I've noticed many people, especially the younger generation of auto enthusiasts, think they are experts at something just because they watched a few YouTube videos made by people who aren't experts and make a lot of mistakes. I suppose that's slightly less irritating than all of the Instagram entrepreneurs that still live with their parents.

Sent from my toilet using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

I still remember a time when humanity was surviving without cell phones or the internet.

 

I'm just old enough to also remember when life was normal....

 

That's a bit too kumbaya for me but sure

I'm just trying to highlight that expertise/knowledge is very silo'd.

The combo of not understanding this AND ego/blinded-by-passion is what causes otherwise very smart and capable people to get scammed.

It's your hobby, you spend a lot of time on it so you must be an expert, oh some other members of the community like it, well they can't be wrong, of I've already sunk so much $$$ into it, I can't back out now, that would be a tacit admission that something so core to my idea of self that is existencially a threat,easier to keep head in sand than to admit any wrong doing.

This train of logic or something similar to it is the reason we have 20,000 usd hdmi cables... And religion

 

Absolutely! I remember reading an article about the Koch brothers, among many other wine collectors, being scammed about some rare bottles of wine that the scammer was concocting in his kitchen complete with labels with the correct patina, etc. The ego and the perceived self expertise of the collectors just paints a huge sign on their back shouting "here, take my money please and if you scam me maybe I'll be too embarrassed to tell anyone about it". Add to that the placebo effect and you've got a fantastic business opportunity!

 

Is this gross margin before or after the Porsche ADM? What are GT3RS and 911 ST's going for? Doubt they objectively more capable than similar priced 296's on the track!

 

Ding ding ding

Exactly

 

For sure a gt3rs is more capable than a 296

Don't know what you're smoking

 

99% of Ferrari owners can spout off random motor trend facts, but can't even change their own oil.

 

You are wrong. Only on Porsche's home track on the ring is the GT3 slightly faster. The 296 is faster on all other tested tracks, for a win record of 7-1. Numbers don't lie my friend, even if you do. We don't need to get into this, though, and derail the thread any further.

 

Not to mention the RS has the looks only a mother would love...that wing! (compared to the 296 of course)

 

There are a lot of incredibly intelligent people on these forums. I'd say that the average diy ferrari owner is more knowledgeable than the average non-ferrari diy owner. While the basic stuff isn't too hard on these cars, the more advanced stuff is. Having my car apart in just about every way imaginable has forced me to become much better at auto mechanics.

That being said, if you go to one of those dickless wine tasting elbow rubbing concours events, the vast majority of the owners there don't know anything besides what the person next to them ate by the smell of their farts.

Sent from my toilet using FerrariChat.com mobile app

 

LOL, true. However I'm a newbie to F and have no mechanical expertise whatsoever. More artistic type as they say. Oh and smelling some else's farts is just gross.