EAG, the good, the bad, and the ugly.

I posted the GT3, so making the correction here. The GT3 RS and the 296 are neck and neck on lap times, except the ring. 296 acceleration, 1/4 and top speed is faster. The cars are the same price with ADM.

Excited for the 296 VS

 

I changed my battery the other day Eric are you proud of me?

 

Hell yeah. I think I'd rather do a engine swap than crawl under that stupid dash again lol

 

Your link is for a regular GT3 ... and GT3RS is 520hp, 296 is like 820hp

If for some reason you want to drop 300k usd on a track toy and you actually want to be able to use it as a track toy, you'd go GT3 RS

Ability and ease for tuning the setup to your liking (independent damping adjustments), active aero, etc.

A GT3 RS is a proper track car, a 296 is a REALLY fast road car.

I'm sure a 296 will outrun a lot of junior formula cars around most tracks too, doesn't make it a more capable track car.

Personally if I'm going to get a dedicated track toy ... I'd get a DEDICATED track toy, a caterham, radical, or ariel or something.... hell even an exocet with a miata drivetrain underneath will be a more fun purpose built track machine than dare I say the GT3 RS which is still designed for the road but yeah that's going way off topic. Much lower price for consumables for a dedicated track machine.

I much prefer the 296 to a GT3 or GT3 RS ... but that's because it works as a road car first and foremost. Even if it will see track duty it will see 99% of it's miles on the street.

 

So true

 

Caitlyn Jenner drive an RS...on the road. I'm not one to judge though.

 

Porsche makes about 10% gross margins if i remember correctly, might be 15% across all their models. Ferrari is 30+ across all their models.

Dealer markups would hit dealer's income statement, not the factory so make of that what you will.

No one in the car biz has margins like ferrari. It's incredible.

 

A dedicated track car, such as a 488 challenge car would be money better spent than a GT3RS, in my opinion. Significantly cheaper to boot. You can go a lot of different ways, like the radical or ariel as you mentioned.

But your original post was about Ferrari owners paying higher prices for less capable cars. For the same price with ADM we are splitting hairs on the GT3RS. Are we talking about track cars or street cars? Don't even get me started on AWD r8 or Huracans for daily driving or track use.

You ended your post by saying that you prefer the 296 to the GT3 or the GT3RS. Maybe others feel that way as well, and it has nothing to do with their knowledge (or lack thereof) of performing their own maintenance. Clearly, there are others on this forum who know how to do work, and they own Ferraris. I am simply calling out some details in your post that, to me, don't make any sense.

 

A quick Google search shows that Porsche's margins are about 19% (before ADM, which varies). Ferrari's is 25% (flat). Please stop and lets get the thread back on topic now

 

Yea but that's an incredibly small subset of all owners.

You're no doubt right that the average diy ferrari owner is almost certainly more knowledgable than the average non-ferrari diy owner ... but that doesn't mean much.

Agreed on the concours types.

Given we're in the EAG thread, the universe of people we're actually concerned about are .... the owners who have 360s/430s and are considering to do a conversion and the potential owners of converted cars or potential owners of cars looking to do a conversion.

That whole universe is probably slightly more knowledgable than the universe of current/potential ferrari owners ... but not by much.

Unless it's someone looking to do most of the work themselves .... which is what like at most 1% of folks in this pool ?

 

For someone who doesn't appear to be speaking from knowledge, you sure have a lot of useless nonsense to say.

Maybe you should remain in "read only" mode for a while. You could learn a lot.

 

That's because Ferrari spends about $0.02 in R&D in a decade outside the drivetrain.

"Hey Luigi, I designed this material for our switches"
"Thank you Gino, we will use these in every single model for the next 25 years"

"Hey Ferrari, these switches turn sticky after a few years and will have to be refinished in every single car you ever produced since the early 90s and it costs a few thousand dollars"
"Sorry Customer, FU, we've spent our R&D budget for that, not gonna help ya".

"Hey, we need to develop an infotainment system"
"Nah, just use the one from a Chrysler, and to make sure it doesn't cost us more than $0.01, let's not offer any updates to it, ever. Maps from 2007 should be fine to sell in 2017, right?"

...sorry for straying OT.

 

Do you not need permission prior to recording their phone calls / text messages?

 

Ferrari sold 13000 cars last year

Exactly how many of those do you think will be worked on by their owners?

That's what I thought.


You may be one of those who actually does your own maintenance but you can't possibly think you're in the majority here.

 

People who smugly answer their own questions need to be ignored.

Thanks Ferrari Chat for the Ignore button!

 

That's literally my point

We buy Ferraris not because they're objectively the best to for the job

We've bought into the intangibles

If you want to be cynical, we're all drinking the koolaid

If you want to be an optimist, we've bought into the history and provenance which extend beyond nurburgring laptimes and lateral Gs.

Just depends on whether you're a glass half empty or glass half full type of person.

Personally I'm happy knowing my speedmaster professional isn't as objectively capable as my g shock and despite omega's endless efforts trying to remind me this watch went to the moon, I'm aware my particular example only has a tangential relationship to that achievement.

Fact of the matter is we all bought into what is almost always the interior product at premium pricing.

There's nothing wrong with that, but trying to ignore it or deny it is just silly.

McLarens were more capable pretty much right out of the gate with the 12c.

Lambos with awd are way more sure footed in the real world, especially compared to the V12 rwd GTs.

911s are also generally just more refined/useable.

But ferrari is ferrari.

I simply don't care that the 812/F12 wants to spin in a straight line of its even mildly damp.

I don't care that my 458 will be left on the dust by literally any McLaren or lambo built in the last 20 years.

I just want it.

No shame admitting it. Just don't be that guy trying to convince yourself that 10,000 dollar hdmi cable gives you better image quality and sound. If it makes you feel better, it's your money do whatever you want, but call a spade a spade

 

Even that is debatable - because I suspect some (I do not say all, just to be nice ) people interested by conversions are caught by a hype about manual gearboxes - which is hardly a sign of mechanical literacy.

 

I'll vouch for this, when I got my first one a few years ago I was shocked at how little actual resources and engagement there was on here for anything even slightly technical being such a busy forum with so many owners. Mind you it wasn't an Enzo it was a California, you would think that for simple common things with such a widely produced car purchased by the lower segment that there would be some amount of tech info beyond just "take it to the dealer". I'm not going to do anything heavy duty on my car or any car but I can change out a common issue wire in the dash it's not like Ferrari has golden tools or something that can't be wielded by common man but it makes it a little more difficult when the only insight you can find is "I paid xxxx to have mine fixed at the dealer".

 

Gt3rs is not a proper track car.

It's is a 911 trans that identifies as a race car.

People who REALLY run at the track... Buy cup cars.

Ferrari people buy challenge cars.

A cup car is significantly faster and better around a track than a gt3rs. It's not even close.


The RS is a extremely capable car. But it is mostly used for HPDE stuff once and then cruising the parking lots talking about paint to sample and deviated stitching and leather air vents.

 

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Are we playing a drinking game?
I heard my trigger word, Speedmaster.
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This might be a broad generalization.

I prefer to drive my Italian twelve cylinders by hand, and don’t want to pay eight or nine hundred gazillion for one of the three dozen ish factory 599 manuals. The whole debate about converting comes down to personal preference.

 

Dave from DDE asked him on a recent video and he said the brand starts with L... probably working on that Murci conversion. Lambo owners beware lol.

 

Most of that isn't worth replying to, but your original statement was, "Ferrari owners tend to be deeper pocketed and for the most part ... know less about cars."

You may want to specify that "knowing about cars" means being able to rebuild your engine.

True, and most of them shouldn't be attempting it anyway , but I don't necessarily equate being a DIY guy with being a car enthusiast.

 

Good post.

The arrogance and condescension in some of these threads is alarming.
You can almost FEEL who would be fun to hang out with and who...... uh..... wouldn't