308 Assembly Sequence Numbers

You have a wetsump so you don't have the same oil cooler bracket as the picture. There is no body number around here on your car.
Yours seems to be stock even if it looks quite far from the frame, maybe it is the angle of the picture.
The front lid seems not showing any stamp but don't hesitate to look at the entire vertical left frame down to the bottom with a grazing light
For the rear lid you should also look up to the rear lights, inside, on the edge (this is definitely a steel car, we can forget about a vetroresina donor so the assembly number is missing a figure, it can't be only 55)

 

A couple of things are questionable in this thread and I'd be happy to corrected, it's always nice to learn something new but this is what I've found from taking many cars down to the frame.

The sequence numbers must reset, without knowing the inner workings of the coach builder I assume annually because I've never seen a Boxer (for example) with a 4 digit sequence number yet they built over 2000 of them. I've restored cars as early the 27th 365 and then the first 512 built (which would be late 300's in the model line) but it had no sequence numbers at all anywhere, then a lot in between and I restored a late 84 boxer that was within the last 50 built and it was build number 893 (out of 2300 cars built since 74) That doesn't add up or at least blows the theory the numbers don't reset. I assumed the sequence numbers would include all cars at the time rather than having a 308, a boxer and a 400 with the same sequence numbers in the same model year? That would eliminate confusion like each car having a unique vin. I could be wrong but that makes sense to me. MaranelloMark posted his build number as 55A, the 55th body for the North American market (not mentioned that I can see) but to confuse things further it could have an earlier vin than the 50th body built because vin assignment has nothing to do with body assembly sequence.

I wouldn't be looking for a hidden 1 or a 3 or any additional number thats further away from the other two digits, why would they do that anyway? Its not supposed to be a mystery to the people mocking up the cars.

I would look on the inside of the rear inners as suggested, the inside of the head light assemblies and the trim panels may still have the tape and other times it was written right on the panel in grease pencil. Ive also found the earlier the car the less sequence numbers are to be found, the later cars in the mid 80's they stamped so much more like they were improving their numbering system. Same goes for inspection marks on suspension, they went from a little to a lot over time.

 

The entire floor, firewalls, inners etc are fiberglass.

Try cleaning to the left of the 5 but the number should be right there not spaced away if there is a 3 or 4 etc. My 77 is 483 but the numbers are grouped tightly.

 

Additionally there is nothing in the build sheets that record this number either.

 

So I must admit that I disagree with Newman on some points.
I in no way dispute his expertise, which I admire and which has contributed a lot to the subject that interests us (and still do and will). I have been following him since the first 308, the restoration of which he shared here and with him all the questions he raised along the way.
I'm just being factual about the data I've been collecting for 18 years. I have 12172 chassis of 308 listed and several hundred body numbers. I am able to describe the following different assembly sequences regarding the 308 versions (in the order of their appearance):

GTBcarb EURO LHD (vetro+steel)
GTBcarb EURO RHD (vetro+steel) AUS is in the sequence

GTBcarb US (vetro+steel) JAP is in the sequence

GTScarb EURO LHD

GTScarb US

GTScarb EURO RHD

GTSi US until end GTSi QV US F105A040
GTBi US until end GTBi QV USA F105A040

GTSi EURO LHD
GTBi EURO RHD

GTSi QV EURO
GTBi QV EURO
GTSi QV EURO RHD
GTBi QV EURO RHD

GTSi QV USA F105E040 until December 1983
GTBi QV USA F105E040 until December 1983

GTSi QV USA F105E040 from Dec 83 (body and engine number reset)
GTBi QV USA F105E040 from Dec 83 (body and engine number reset)

GTSi QV USA F105E040 from July 84 (reset body only)
GTBi QV USA F105E040 from July 84 (reset body only)

Apart from the 2v-4v US injection where we have 4 sequences, there has been no other reset within the same type. And for me, each model at Ferrai had its own sequences, otherwise we would have a huge mix between the different markets vs the different models and the stamped numbers would be much more important. Moreover, the Euro sequences follow each other naturally and the last body numbers are logical in relation to the numbers of cars produced in each model.

I don't know the details of the boxers, but with at least 2 sequences (EURO LHD and EURO RHD) per vehicle type (365GT4BB, 512BB and 512BBi), it is completely normal to have no sequence that exceeds 1000 units. (I think there is no US sequence because from my memory it was never officially imported).

So regarding car 21819, its assembly number must be between 330 and 370, there was no reset during this period and even though the assembly numbers are not "matching" with the serial number , there is still a very strong correlation (we sometimes find a shift or numbers not quite in order over 1 or 2 months of production in a row but never a random number). The 55th body would be a vetroresina so nothing to do with this car in terms of bodywork

@Dr Tommy Cosgrove
I had the chance to see a 308 built sheet (scheda di montaggio) and the built number is clearly noted there (scocca). I have also seen production manufacturing orders from the factory and I know that the tables are very well filled out, they are even in the order of the assembly numbers, then the second column shows their chassis number. It is not computerized but it is very clear.

of course, this is just my opinion and it is mine alone

 

Like I said, Im happy to learn! As much as I intimately know the guts of a boxer and the running changes, I'll never know it all no matter how much I try and Im okay with that. As for 308's I don't know them as well as a BB but from a production standpoint there are similarities because they go through the same system at the coach builder and the factory.

Using the BBi as an example, 1007 built from 82-84, how does that explain the late 84 I restored with a build number of 893? Logic says the numbers reset, there's no other explanation and since they didn't build 893 injected boxers in 84 that would imply that other cars built used some of those numbers from 1 to 892 and after in 1984. It wouldn't make sense to apply different sequence number rules to different models in the same period.

 

I am sorry to say that I don't know any of the boxer body numbers but if I apply the same logic, how many RHD example you think there are for the BBi ?
One say 42 UK RHD, how many for Australia, RSA and HK?
And then, you might not have restore the last one, if there are a few dozen later you are in the area of your body number for the BBi. If you tell the chassis number, I could tell how many boxer left after.

When I follow the evolution of the built number in my file, just for the 308, it make senses that there are only 308, otherwise, I would have a kind of reset, each year, and higher body number at the end of the year compared at the number of chassis numbers I have. This is not what I see.
The second approach for me which confirms the fact that there was no annual reset, is that in 1984, there were nearly 3000 cars built at Ferrari Spa so if the sequences grouped together all the models, we would have much more than 893 for an end-of-year car (even if we separate the markets)

 

Apparently it is in some build sheet folders and not in others. The build sheet folder for my car 50045 had one page that stapled to the inside cover. It was full of typed information and the bottom half was torn off in a way like it was intentional. At the end of one typed line was "telaiu 105 matricola 50045" I believe telaiu means frame in English. As you can see in my photo when I started this thread my frame is stamped 105.

Interesting

The folder for chassis 35455 did not have this half torn page in it like mine did.

So, yes, Ferrari was recording these frame numbers with the chassis number

 

Good to know about the floors, firewalls, etc. Looks like mine may have an aluminum firewall or it is covered with aluminum. I'll take a photo. Probably not relevant to this thread, but it looked like a mod, maybe so someone could access 5-8 by removing the panel easier?

I'll take a swipe further to the left of the first 5 and see in there is anything there, but it doesn't look like it.

 

So how did it work for these 308s (and other models)? Did Ferrari receive complete bodies rollers and install engines and interiors at Ferrari Spa? Or did they receive frames and body panels and pull them onto the line for assembly? Or something else? Trying to understand the manufacturing flow. I have serialized sub-assemblies in my company. And when we run a build of units, we pull from stock and document the s/n on each build sheet. But a s/n 1 final product can have s/n 100 board inside it. And the s/n 1 product may be the 5th one out the door in a given week. So, does this elusive number really mean anything outside of establishing that it was on the early side vs the later side for a given model year (or model series)?To be honest, I would have never even looked (or known to look) had I not stumbled on to this thread. But now I feel like I have to know for some strange reason. LOL.

 

I did not see the picture of the folder you're talking about in this thread but the built sheet is a single sheet. Maybe this folder is an other document from Ferrari.
You can see one example for the GT4 post #128. For the B/S, it is different but same informations.

I had completely forgotten that it was thanks to you that we really became interested in the subject and over the 13 pages, we learned a lot!!! Thank you

And yes, telaio means chassis in Italian

 

you can see interesting photos taken by witnesses of the time on this page:

http://308-328.com/historyen.html

 

My 1985 308 QV GTB is stamped #29 for what that's worth.

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Thanks! How did I ever miss this? [emoji3]


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Well, well, well! Looks like @TripleBlack was correct. My June 77 21819 appears to be revealing herself as 355.

Looking just to the left of the first ‘5’ there appears to be a ‘3’. I was sanding and the three popped out and the next gentle swipe with the 320 paper almost erased it forever. Look carefully if this allows you to zoom in. It immediately popped out as a faint yellow ‘3’ to me but my brain was too slow to stop my hand on that last swipe. Let me know what you think. I still could be wrong and I don’t understand why it is only paint deep unless it was struck with a very girly blow. [emoji23]


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My 1978 Ferrari 308GTS has stamping near ignition coils. 534A

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That’s the same spot as the photos I posted. Except mine don’t impact the metal. I think they just impacted the soft (at the time) paint. So the yellow and black paint surrounds the numbers because the paint was displaced but the blows to the stamp weren’t hard enough to impact the frame. That’s my theory anyway.


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The build sheets are in a "folder" that is partially filled out in advance depending on the model.

I'll post some pics Ferrari took of me looking at mine at the Classiche department in Maranello two years ago

 

Out of curiosity, did you pay for the Classiche certification or did you just go to Maranello in person and ask to see the records? Asking because I might try that if that’s possible, next time I go back to Italy.


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Thank you, and what is your chassis number?

Don't forget that this number was stamped on bare metal, before the primer and the paint so he must have been hit lightly. it's very common to have even partially readable numbers

 

56263

 

So, sequence #29, chassis #56263, Feb 1985 build date.

 

I went to Maranello and asked.
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These are pictures Ferrari took when I was in the Classiche Department looking at my 308's build sheets. This is the "folder" the build sheets are placed in. Mine is this one chassis 50045. As you can sorta see the front is partially filled out and the rest is written in by hand. The left side has the half page stapled with the frame number typed in. That is the ONLY place that frame number was recorded in the folder or the other paper work it contained.
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