is the bubble due to burst?

RM Sotheby's Daytona Spyder #15383 sold very well, for a record(?) for this model at auction, 3,436,250 Euros.

 

Daytona Spyders are the outliers in this market. Why I haven't a clue?

 

It is one of the rare and more desirable European non US smog equipment examples. Has non Cromodora replica wheels, wrong tyres, missing securing screws on the engine air filter, non original colours. Pictures aren't good enough to see other details I would like to see.

 

Non original color.
And: In order to actually sell a car at auction one needs bidders, or at least one and a chandelier.

Marcel Massini

 

I don't see any mention of 15383 being matching numbers? Only reference to it running with a rebuilt engine in 1981. No copy of the Classiche Red Book that would clarify whether matching numbers or not. No copy of the Marcel Massini report either.

 

15383 has changed exterior color multiple times. Born Argento (March 1972), later black (1981), then silvergrey (1993), then yellow (1994), then gunmetal (2017).
Per factory records the original internal engine block number is B 1660, and the tranny is 783.

Marcel Massini

 

What about the engine and transaxle?

 

15383.

So these are not in the car now then?

 

I do not know what is in the car today.

Marcel Massini

 

IIRC late in Daytona production Ferrari stopped the practice of stamping the engine block pad with the chassis number?

 

Only the early Daytonas have the engine number the same as the chassis number.

 

Didn't RM Sotheby's send you a copy of the 2010 Classiche Red Book when they commissioned you to provide a history report? This would have stated whether the engine was the original one in 2010. If you were not told the engine number that is currently in the car you can not be expected to write a history report.

 

I don't have copy of the red book for this car.
Nor did I write a catalog or website description.
I have no idea which engine was in the car in 2010.
I have no idea which engine is in the car today (May 2024).
If there exists a red book from 2010 (we now have 2024), fourteen years later, such an old book is useless anyway, simply because anybody can replace an engine or other major component in 14 years time.

Marcel Massini

 

Thanks. Reading my post it may sound as if I am questioning you, which is NOT the case I assure you. I am questioning RM Sotheby's. It's a stretch for them to state that you have written a "history report" for this car where it is impossible to do so with the limited information provided.

From the RM Sotheby's description:

• Certified by Ferrari Classiche in April 2010 and offered with its “Red Book”
• Further accompanied by a copy of a Ferrari Certificato d’Origine, history report by marque expert Marcel Massini, and ACI documentation

 

Generally:
All these auction companies usually have no own archive or data about specific cars, consider that these firms offer thousands of cars per year. It would be absolutely impossible.
Hence there are a number of marque experts, besides Ferrari also for Porsche or Bugatti or McLaren or Mercedes-Benz or just F1 single seaters or just Gullwings etc etc etc.
Auction companies maintain relationships with those specialists and also with many individuals. Plus they also use information provided by a consignor, although in many cases those consignors usually know near nothing about their own cars........
As for the red book and the system behind, this has been discussed at length already in various threads. It is just a moment in time. One may get the red book today, replace the original engine tonite and sell the car with red book tomorrow as super perfect example.......and some idiot will fall into the trap. Has happened more than once.

Question: How many classic cars in total does a company like RM Sotheby's offer at all their many auctions in one single year? One thousand? More? I have no idea.

Marcel Massini

 

Well said.
I’d like to add that the “red book” reference can also be applied to IAC/PFA rule “Platinum” award(s).
Just because a car has been awarded one with 100 points at a judged show, let’s say today, doesn’t mean it’s “Perfect” or necessarily anywhere near it and that it will be awarded with same score at another judged show using same judging/scoring system tomorrow or next week/month/year.

 

It was yellow back when our company, Symbolic Motors, acquired in the mid-1990s. The customer to whom we sold it back then - - we also sold him a 365 GTS during the same time period - - requested that we have the Daytona Spider repainted silver.

Having sold numerous Daytona Coupes and Spiders over the past several decades, it’s my opinion the U.S. version ones actually have a much nicer exhaust note than their Euro-version counterparts.

 

Well, that is very interesting.
While my personal (high speed) experiences are likely less numerous, maybe in a dozen or so Berlinetta's (only) and most having been US market cars in past two decades, I've always thought OEM US exhaust high note sounds nicer or more refined and quieter/smoother at lower RPMs/speeds.
I also have a personal suspicion/theory as to why.

 

EDIT:

 

And so the suspense grows.........

 

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Manheim is as far from anything to do with the classic Ferrari market as one could possibly get.

 

Agree. Just another data point.

 

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$2.4m for a regular short nose?

 

Remarkable results today at RMSotheby's Dare to Dream sale. Daytona Berlinetta hammered at $960,000 + vig, that has to be a recent record? It seems that many of the high bidders(no reserve sale) were online bidders--not sure what to make of that? Anyhow hats-off to RMS.