I’m just waiting (might already exist) for a video where Stephenson draws 4 tapered taillights on the back…. Not hating on FS, it’s just that designers/ artists correcting others works is such ego stroking. 100% good to have different takes on something, but just because you would do it differently doesn’t make it crap. That, and the fact that everybody is an expert in everything nowadays doesn’t help….
The saying: "Give the same design brief to 10 different designers, and you'll get 10 different answers" is true. It's a curse and a blessing. Can't look at anything without saying: "I would have done that differently."
Although the claim seems disingenuous—and really no added value for the purpose of a eulogy in stating that the design was under his responsibility—it’s no different from any studio head taking credit for a design. In the case of the F12 even though Pininfarina staff was doing the design, Manzoni, as head of Ferrari design, was effectively in charge of its design and development. His stewardship of Ferrari design progressively evolved to include his own, in-house, design staff and studio. Recall also that Frank Stephenson, predecessor to Donato Coco and Manzoni, was appointed the first Director of Ferrari-Maserati Concept Design and Development very much takes credit for the F430 which was all done at Pininfarina. This is him talking about and drawing the F430 that surprisingly looks nothing like an F430: Makes you wonder how much influence he really had on the design if he can’t even draw the car properly. Manzoni, on the other hand, is able to perfectly illustrate all the cars he’s responsible for.
I never questioned the way Manzoni draws, which is brilliant. I was just referring to his narcissism and what IMO is the lack of cohesion that some of his creations denote by combining in the same car geniality with its opposite.
The first picture is of the 12 C coupé. The second picture is a render someone made of a 12 C "Modificato". I can't resist asking which of the two do you like more? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
It’s very easy to say. The first is crisp, modern, fresh. The second is a hash of two ideas and looking firmly backwards. Was it a trick question?
It also shows Manzoni’s challenge. How do you stop a classic design from looking as boring as the second image? Clearly some don’t like his updated classic theme, particularly the detail design he has used to update said classic design. But in the flesh it is much better and I now see the first picture through the lens of my up-close viewing. Still not my favourite of his designs but it is very sexy - a word I used in another thread. It make all the right “get in and drive me” noises.
It wasn't a trick question. As there is a certain unanimity regarding the design of the front and sides of the 812 C and the great disagreement has been in relation to the rear part (delta wing) of the coupé, I am very curious to know whether an alternative rear end would have made any difference.
Surprised that I prefer the first. At least from that angle. The black parts on the back have been my least favorite part of the design, but now I find it preferable. At least at that angle! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Was going through the SP1/SP2 thread and found this gem from right after the reveal: Image Unavailable, Please Login Ferrari could re-release the F40 and half of the people here would hate it. "Too boxy. Total trash. I'll stick to my 288!!!"
The top one, of course. I imagine this will have quite the presence on the road. I find the back of the SF-90 quite strange but seeing one on the road it looked like a spaceship. So, mission accomplished of drawing attention was the goal.
I prefer the winglets in body color. Otherwise I prefer the real car. Unfortunately, the black trim is not growing on me, at least not yet. For an incomplete and almost certainly biased answer to what others think of the black bits, here are polls about the trim on the nose, at the back of the coupe, and at the back of the spider. Responses about the front trim were fairly evenly distributed, but tilted negative. The black trim at the back is apparently unpopular, though this is based on a small and likely biased sample (particularly for the coupe).
I agree when you state that his post seemed disingenuous, had no added value for the purpose of a eulogy in stating that the design was under his responsibility, and that Pininfarina did the F12 design. The rest not so much in that it attempts to excuse the personality and behavior which we unfortunately must endure to follow the brand these days.
Re-reading the IG post, I realize I misunderstood Manzoni’s statement—he was saying that the F12 was a collaboration between Pininfarina and the Ferrari Design Center which he was setting up and which was under his responsibility. So Ferrari Design, not the F12.
It's interesting how Fchat mirrors current politics - polarised and less tolerance of different views and opinions. The threads on the new car have developed a nasty side - a sad reflection on our inability to accept there are different views, designers try their best, innovation moves on and ultimately these are just luxury items for the wealthy.
When we talk about automobile design IMO in the last 70 years no other auto maker has balanced performance and beauty like Ferrari. Not to say everything Ferrari has always made looks amazing and that is why whenever a new model is presented there are those who criticize it and even say “This is not Ferrari’s style”. In the personal interpretation of each of us, the Ferrari style is what a sports car should be at its core, what design should be, what creates the Ferrari experience. So when we look at a new model the first question our subconscious asks is “Is this Ferrari’s style?”. When the answer is “No” or “May be” this is not at all “a sad reflection on our inability to accept there are different views” but just the realization that we do not consider that this new Ferrari is amazing.
I dont think the level of harshness/ nastiness/ on f-chat has changed much over the years. There's always some. The more I look at the new car, the more I like it. Ferrari's challenge is almost always the same: the Ferraristi, the Tifosi, the aficionados, the admirers of the brand, we all tend to love what they've done so far. So, naturally, we would like more of that please! But, keeping doing the same thing over and over means you don't grow. Ferrari, has always been about growth and change. So when they change something, it's the same lovers of the marque that now will often have a strong initial negative reaction. The challenge for us, or at least some of us is to admit, we maybe our initial impression wasn't really complete. It's tempting, especially today, to come to a fast conclusion- thats the sad reality of our world- everything is fast reactions! You must make a conclusion NOW! Those of us who've been around a while typically will say let's wait to see it in person. Thats the best way to judge a 3 dimensional object, as opposed to a 2 dimensional screen.
My conclusion NOW! is it will take time for the design to grow on me or not! Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Has anyone successfully placed an order with a dealer in the US yet? I’ve talked to 2 and they aren’t sure when they will open the order books as they are waiting on allocation info. Or maybe I’m far down the priority list…Curious to hear of everyone’s order experience in the US.
