You already knew what I meant, because the naturally aspirated 458 Italia Montezemolo was definitely LOL against the turbocharged McLaren.
I have never seen more disrespect for the brand than in this thread. The 12C Manzoni was literally completely trashed, from the wheels, the front bumper and all the way to the rear flaps. The paradox is that no one is forcing anyone to buy this car, but people who don't like it can't calm down and come to this thread to trash it, over and over again. The phenomenon of black car body panels should be studied in psychiatry, because I still don't understand why they need to be painted the same color as the body - who said that and why should this be done? And how can the idea even come to mind to buy a new thing and immediately change/remake it, what's the point and what's in these people's heads?
I don't think SUV is a sin. I see it more like a necessary bridge to EV. I'm assuming Ferrari's first EV will be a SUV too. So therefore those who like proper sports cars with ICE, don't need to bother with EV. At least not just yet. They can continue buying F cars they really want until EV reaches the level where it may become an actual option.
Well, the 458 still outpaced the McLaren MP4-12C at many tracks. I suppose the turbos in the end were inevitable if they wanted to keep the pace AND survive the pollution restrains.
Understand, we expected more from Ferrari, they obviously are laughing at their customers, thinking they are fools. From the lazy name (12 cylinder, why just name it car or 4 wheels or something equally unimaginative), to the lazy engine (3 years old at launch, both upsetting 812C customers and attempting to present it as 'new' to 12c customers, amazing level of disrespect for the customer) to the foolish 'winglets'.... we were expecting so much more. The best part of the 12c, I believe by unanimous consent, is the front hinged hood, but the rest, they could of done so much better and that's why the level of "disrespect", just matching Ferrari's obvious disrespect for their customers.
I guess we are Ferrari loyalists who expected a bit more effort on Ferrari’s part- an updated version of the V12 (at least quote a different HP figure from the 812C!)in a slightly lighter smaller car would have been nice. Instead we have a bigger hybrid heavy type of car without the hybrid and it’s definitely not an Icona style type of car- it’s a “heritage” model. Makes me feel old and they are throwing us a bone for $500K. The people on this thread expected more. We got more good and hard- weight,size,haptics for spastics, a Manzoni miss on the styling and price. What’s not to like? Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
Please don’t tease us like this. I wish I could go back 5 seconds and never read this comment. Now I will forever be left wondering what could have been…
strange thing for me is that there are so many of us who would like a lighter, smaller NA car, and yet somehow we don't get it. More so, that we always listen that "they don't leave any money on table". Either it's just us, here on forum who wants it, new gen of costumers don't, or the current menagment are just blind.
pls correct that " you would buy everything from ferrari for that.." if more people speak like you.. they may would not restart the project, if they want to reconsider resuming it.
I highly highly highly doubt Ferrari will ever actually launch another Dino type lightweight simple NA car, as its price point would not allow it to make the profit per car that the company’s shareholders have now grown accustomed to.
Perhaps a non hybridized V6 from the 296? A manual would make sense with that engine because the 296 uses the electric motors as a reverse gear. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Guys … have you seen Ferrari’s runway show for its fashion line? Ferrari sees themselves as the Hermes of cars and they want extremely high price points, high levels of options on the cars and high profit margins per vehicle. A lower priced, lower horsepower, lower content vehicle is diametrically opposed to these objectives. It’s not going to happen. The only chance in hell for there to even be a manual transmission offered would be if Ferrari wants to offer a counter punch to the Aston Martin Valiant and even then it will be a bon bon thrown only to VIP clients, extremely high priced, limited production unobtanium and even then it is still 99% unlikely to ever exist. Give up this Dino dream and manual transmission dream.
I understand your reasoning, it makes sense, but I think that in practice the effect would be the opposite. A smaller N/A V6 or V8 could cost even more than a 296 if sold as a regular production stripped-down (perhaps as a Ferrari version of the 911 GT3), and it would sell like hot cakes. Lower production cost, less complexity, higher price = more profits. In addition, since it is a non-hybrid N/A, it would have a collectible characteristic, so an even larger portion of customers would opt for Atelier and TM, generating even more profits. The 911s that go through the PTS the most are the naturally aspirated ones. Perhaps Ferrari is keeping this good decision/product as an ace up its sleeve to use when the results of bad decisions appear (because the side effects will come).
Respectfully I have to push back on what you are saying: 1. You have to give Ferrari credit for getting a lot of things right. Most importantly of these is that they have correctly assessed that you MUST constantly incrementally add engine power incrementally. There is no going back to lower power. To do so is to risk becoming irrelevant and devalued. From today forward any sports car other than 911 GT3 that costs over $200k with less than 800 hp won’t even be taken seriously. 2. People would NOT spend more TM and option money on a base cheaper model. You are confusing base cheaper model with stripped out hardcore VS type model. 3. The closest thing to what you are describing would be the 296 VS and you know that will be a $500k vehicle and unobtainium.
It would be a new model in the line, so there would be no predecessor, so there is no way to go back in power. Ferrari, with its management with an extreme bias towards electrification, will put two EVs in the line, while several brands are aborting the idea. That really runs the risk of devaluing and diluting the brand image. Producing a beautiful and pure NA berlinetta will never devalue the brand. You are admitting that the 911 GT3 is a successful formula. Simply because it delivers what many customers want. Why can't Ferrari have a product like that in its line? GM got 670 hp from a naturally aspirated V8. Ferrari has infinitely superior technology and know-how than GM. What could Ferrari do with, say, a naturally aspirated V6 or V8 today? I didn't say base model, and that is quite clear in my post. No, the 296 VS will be turbo and hybrid, it will be to the 296 line what the SF90 XX is to the SF90 line.
I respectfully disagree. Ferrari could produce a 296 pure ICE where they turn the wick up to 750hp from 650hp (more boost, more displacement, whatever) and lower the weight to 3100 from 3600. The lb/hp would go from 4.40 to 4.13. The money spent on electric motors and batteries could be spent on weight savings instead. I’d pay $500 for that car. Many others would too. I dare say it would be more popular than the current 296. Heck, they could raise the price to $700 and “limit” it to 2,000 and sell every one of them. And don’t get me started on putting the 812 engine in the SF90….
The reason they won’t do it is this: For Porsche the GT3 is a top of the line halo car, their VS, a bon bon for heavy buying customers, so it will only pull buyers up toward a higher price point. For Ferrari a 500 or 600 hp NA car with no hybrid and no turbo and simple mechanicals would pull buyers DOWN from 500k cars down to 250k to 300k cars. And they would siphon demand away from all the pricier more complex models above it. They couldn’t price such a vehicle anywhere close to 500k or even 400k with a straight face. I’m with you on wanting it, but it’s absolutely not going to happen for all of the reasons I have stated in recent posts. But go on and dream
Let’s start the wait list for 812 engined SF90 right now at each of our local dealers! Take my money!
Time to start a new thread: regular production rear mid engine V12-call it the SF-12-based on the SF90 chassis if they can shoehorn the 12 in there but make it look like an updated TR! I’ll take mine as a Spider [emoji120] Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
