list good track cars

Its an interesting debate. To me the porches are honed for track, more of roadable track car. There certainly is a question as to how useable a road it it is.
In my world most "sportscars" are a waste. You cant really exploit them on road and if they dont really work on track what exactly are they for. Frankly my 4cyl Gulia has mroe than you can use on road(but motor sounds like a diesel) . A neighbor gave me a convertible 996/911 to use and to me its just a not that comfy car with a top that goes down.

Part of this all has to do with available roads. In Fl the roads are mostly straight, there is an occasional s curve and some great highway roundabouts that are occasionally clear. While you can run down the highway at 80-100 any car can do that.
True in Ct backroads are different, but theyre getting increasingly crowded with NYC Subaru folk and even then Im barely using all my NA elsie has.

Back to FL. youre right a z06 would be a far more useable car, and useable for many road purposes because its a vette. Its probably perfectly comfy to roam as far as road Atlanta barber even vir.The question is how would it really work and holdup up on track. Ive had vettes before and perhaps that unfairly sours me. But I spent too many years dealing with vette issues that related to low cost build. Given all he allowances I make for lotus and ferrari a vette should be fine, but then an elise is bulletproof where it counts.

Maybe its the interior choices people made on the C8s Ive seen, some look cheap and the more upscale ones, the term tarts handbag comes to mind.

The 4rs is the least appealing of the cayman stylistically, overwrought comes to mind, but as a tool on track I think it would be more rewarding and last better/longer., plus I like the minimalism of the interior, and you can get thinks like proper track seats, iron rotors etc.

baby porche true, dont care at all about that. But in my town c8 vettes are literally all over the place and pretty much always driven by a +70 yo just cruising about. The z06s I've seen, they show up at cars and coffe type events and rev their engines, thats the sue cysle, and seems a priority in how it was designed, plus two sets of golf clubs.

But yeah the vette is all day useable well rounded which means most of the time Ill enjoy it more, but then those times on track. Outside possibility Ill go for a used MC20.

In any event the porche are unobtanium, unless you want to spend 250k for slightly used which I wouldn't.

Id sped 180-200k though.

lastly the 4rs is probably the last of its kind, and an extremist zenith in a road car, something you could keep untill too old to drive and it would prob entertain all along the way. Its goign to fit in the pantheon close to a 997 rs 4.0.
The vette, you know theres an improved version round the corner Maybe thats part of it, the z06 is first and foremost a road car that can turn some fast laps. Im really hoping they make a properly honed version soon, as they did with the camros.

meanwhile the monoballs are going into the exige cup suspension in a week.

 

These are the things I fear. In a few years theyll prob have the cars better sorted and honed, if they bother.

 

Well racing and to lesser extent tracking is always going to find the next weak link. In racing we call that developing the car. Lol...

It does not appear this rod breaks on street but maybe it will fatigue fail??? Racers/trackers threshold smashing brakes are finding the weak link. It's not a lot different from early days of racing C5 vettes where we would crack rotors on 3rd trackday. Brakes are always an issue on track vs. On street.

 

Yeah i well remember a freind coaching in a c6 z06 surviving it careening through the bus stop at near full tilt because the brake lines were plastic/rubber and ballooned from the heat. Not a big deal for the factory to fit braided lines on a "track ready" car.. Its these types of omission that make me leery of the c8, perhaos unfairly as were a few generations later, but tis still GM so who knows. You still cant order az07 with iron rotors. Not to say the z06/7 is bad on track, but the priorities were not so track centric, ie show a competitive laptime and focus the car otherwise on street.

True 997 Gt3s had coolant or oil hoses blow off due to cheap fittings, early 991 Gt3s had rod failures, but porches got on it and replaced motors in all affected cars. That same motor is now a few iterations on the the 4rs so Id call it well sorted.

Weight/consumables aside, imo If a fast car cant really work on track for two days open lapping say 5x per day 30-40 mins out with to be fair some minimal mods, youre just heading for a world of frustration expense and wasted days.

Lower down the food chain the previous gen Honda CTR was not a track car, it went into limp mode after a few hard laps and brakes were def not up to it after few days cracked rotors, the current gen may be ok, A Toyota corolla Gr simply cant hack it on track, even after you spend another 20-30k on it.

the C7 Gs seemed to do just fine, not so the other versions up or down the food chain. prob too little experience out there with the c8 z06. And yeah brake system component failure is not some little bit needing a upgrade thats a terminal issue like a boeign flying into the groud. the question is what else lurks.

you know one day theyre going to get serious about this car c8 z06 whatever. there's an easy 50 lbs to loose from the seats alone, not to mention another 100 or so in frippery. Brake pedal feel is universally panned. Imo great road car for most of USA which is highway and stoplights, and better than most every supercar on track, but not fully baked yet as a truly track capable car. lest put it in the category the Nissan skyline used to inhabit when it came out.

 

On the other hand, sterling review.

 

I agree! But most trackday guys are not that fast. Anyone who isn't breaking their streetcar on track simply isn't or can't drive fast enough. I'm not putting anyone down just the facts of track abuse. 90% of early racedays with a converted streetcar are trying to make it survive. My second C5Z06 really pissed me off. My 1st one was easy to sort. I have more than a decade experience racing the C5Z and my 2nd C5Z still took me an entire race season to sort. It is funny that's just how it works sometimes.

 

agreed.
There are degrees or sorting needed to.
Its my impression, perhaps wrong that a z06 would need a lot more sorting to survive than a gt4rs.

pretty much every car will need something to really survive and work on track,

in fact YouTube is already full of gt4rs bei g tracked regularly and hard, as well as what these cars need from alignment. To small changes.

on the z06 its more anecdotal

 

mc20 more like 230 k, agreed on the ttv6. Imagine if that car had the zo6 v8.

as it is the mc20 is down to 180k with 1500 miles on it and I’ll be that much faster v6 with an exhaust upgrade would be a dead ringer for the f40 v8 vibe
I like the minimalist interior

Imo the mc20 is an Italian corvette

4rs just seems track honed in a way the others are not, smaller is better etc.

I also think no might with practice be able to drive a 4 RS to its potential. After a few years finally getting there on the exige. Thers a reason why peole drove Miata and one of them is if you’re going to really be good you wed to be able to maximize the car fully. As you add power the consequences are far greater the rewards less so, if you’re doing it right..

horses for courses

in any event,
Due to cost, availability, road use and a whole host of oter reasons looks like the z06 for me.
Ive owned enough gm products to be to be deeply distrustful of them is I guess my hang up. Still I’ve owned an equinox v6 for 13 years and it’s still right and enjoyable to drive. But then I ended up with its successor as a rental car, and it’s smacked of cynical cheapening everywhere, one of the de modern vehicles I truly hated and wondered how one could make something so bad. That’s the thing with gm even if they have something good they Mahe to mess it. Up either with cost cutting somewhere or just a smash and grab with ver 2.0

maybe the Vette is not so afflicted as it’s developed by the true believers but gm is a company run by beancounters

lets see in the next year how these cars shake out when people really start using them

what’s maxing is how capable and fast moderns have become, how far and quickly the game has moved on. A 2023 Honda ctr laps vir at eh same time as a 2005 ford gt.

An e36 full on race car used to be quick, now it’s chicane

 

^^^ I like my 951 (<$20K). If you could handicap based on HP I'm not sure any newer car would win.

 

This summer seen 2 z06/7 driven I anger, they’re quick.

also saw two long lines from
Locked wheels doing into a wall. That was a Camaro zl1 1 le, driver said the rear was seized, others said he was braking using abs everywhere and abs failed, which imo should not have lead to catastrophe. In any event gm.

drove a c7 z06, what a pos. Aweful in so many ways, but ironically seems well screwed together.

the c8s though seem to have their game on and are taking a backseat to nobody. But the rib is you wed so much camber they’re streetable but too squirrelly for real road sue.

lower down the food chain, impressive how quick “relatively speaking” the new Miata are.
In general cars are getting way quicker, seems like the last decade or so has seen a significant ramp up in some street car track performance.

I know the Honda ctr is all the rage. But a driver of the latest one said he’s happy to get 3 good laps in before he gets a brake heat warning. Light or some other light. If it’s cool enough and the engine does not go into limp then the front tires melted. It’s a great family sedan that can boogie for a bit on track.

stuff these days is so quick they the old stripped e36 m3 is not really in any sort of hunt. Great cars to drive though.

imo z06 and gt4rs are pick of the current crop, except a gt4rs is realistically 250k+ like 100k more than the Vette so not really a pick.

the m2 gets good write ups but. Rained driver with own told me in the end it’s a sedan type road car ie pretty heavy and compromised to really work well, but seems better than a mustang if you’re going to the track but primary road use, and under 70k.
How many laps could an ionic 5n do before the battery needs charging? And what tracks have fast chargers.

 

rib? .... is your mind on whats for dinner? ....... your posts usually need a bit of deciphering. LoL
.

 

I didn't realize Spec Miata's are NA's and NB's only. ....... No NC's or D's?
https://drivenasa.com/road-racing/spec-miata/

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ok, MX-5 Cup series ($$) uses new ND's (and NC's?)
https://www.mx-5cup.com/about/mx5-car-info

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_MX-5_Cup

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NC's are in SCCA "spec MX5" I do not know if anywhere else. Madza supports the series and the racers with new maz parts and roush on board to build new sealed engines from maz parts.

ND's are the global where FLIS is building those cars with sequential boxes and these are pro cars.

 

I saw a new one a road car with suspension work. then there was a mb or Mc and the guy said had a 2.5 motor in it, plus suspension etc
It was not slow.

But out the box new cars have so much ho, tires and brakes even an Audi can be quick is if not so much fun.

that’s the thing about Miata it’s still you balancing the car. Wish they’d make one with that new mazada turbo in line 6.

that’s what I never got with the mr2 brz and even Miata, they do t have to go crazy but those cars could have come from the factory with some go. Seems like they’re limiting the bandwidth of the market. Subaru already makes a great turbo motor.

I did see a Miata this summer that had an Acura v6 swap. Guy said weight difference was minimal and the car could still use the stock box and rear end.

 

I saw what I thought was a spec Miata at house near our neighborhood. I stopped to talk with to the guy and it has the Acura V6 swap 270hp -- it was an early car (1990ish) -- bought a chassis kit for the front end to mount engine, and uses the newer 6-speed transmission, but stock rear end. He said it's a rocketship, sounded great when he started it up. He hasn't had it on track (it was an 11 year project, whole car was modded, so he's gun shy about tracking it). That NSX seems like the perfect swap. I think he said the aluminum block NSX engine weighs only 25 lbs more than the iron block MX5 engine, so it retains all the balance of a stock car. I'd imagine the v8 conversions change the balance of the car (but no direct experience).

 

V8 conversions don't actually change the balance much in a Miata. I've driven both NA and NC Flying' Miata LS swaps on the street and on the track and they're an absolute hoot. The place to go for ND swaps is Sarasota Supersport and their solution is about as turnkey as I've seen.

 

The K24 Swap looks pretty good ...

 

I guess the Acura V6 swap isn't that popular, couldn't find much info about it. Here are some pics from the one I saw




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I really like the 4RS for a street car on track. Added the Manthey kit to cheat a little bit and play with the rear engine 3s.

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Very much off topic -- but ...

Sadly the "Watch this if you like Ferrari's" YouTube video you link in your signature is now only 240p resolution. I think it was much higher res when I first saw it many years ago. Very much off topic, but YouTube has been going back and reducing the resolution of videos from around 2012 and older from 1080p to unwatchable resolution (e.g. 480p, 240p, etc).

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Bummer! I don't have the original video saved. Back to best trackcars IMO the best compromise in a trackcar is the 3200lb SpecCorvette. We are turning amazing laptimes on street tires with rule limited 380rwhp, stock motors, stock headers, single adjustable penske shocks, and wilwood brakes and lots of cooling for durability. 1:27 at WSIR When this series started racers were driving these cars to the track! The SpecCorvette in full SpecCorevette trim can be run at any HPDE, Runoffs competitive in SCCA T2, competitive in NASA ST3 and TT3, the two biggest amateur racing organizations in the country and of course the SpecCorvette series.

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Can’t beat a Radical. Smaller, more technical tracks are its specialty. Endless downforce and grip at high speeds. Buckle up tightly!
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