Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition) | Page 4 | FerrariChat
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Monterey auction thread (the '24 edition)

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by Timmmmmmmmmmy, May 21, 2024.

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  1. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

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    romano schwabel
    #76 turbo-joe, Aug 5, 2024
    I know marcel. and I´m proud that I still have mine.
    I only wonder why only 1 BBi is offerred at all the auctions
     
  2. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

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    #77 Timmmmmmmmmmy, Aug 5, 2024
    Not necessarily. Still rarer in the USA than Europe. I had vague memories of a V12 ban pre '85! Here is what Wiki says

    "Neither the BB, nor its closest competitor, Lamborghini Countach, were built from the factory to meet United States or Canadian safety and emissions regulations.[14] Enzo Ferrari believed that emerging environmental and safety regulations and the 55 MPH national speed limit suggested the company's eight-cylinder cars would suffice in the Malaise era U.S. market.[15] The 365 GT4 BB was also initially planned for a very limited production run, which Ferrari believed could be easily sold in Europe alone.[16]

    Americans purchased the Berlinetta Boxer anyway, and both individual consumers and even authorized Ferrari dealers paid to modify each vehicle to meet United States Environmental Protection Agency and United States Department of Transportation regulations.[14] This was known as the grey market era (1976-1988). While the BB, Lamborghini Countach, and Range Rover were among the first such vehicles, the infrastructure they created allowed the "grey market" to reach 66,900 vehicles in 1985.[17]

    The first 365/512 BBs to legally arrive in the US were modified by Richard "Dick" Fritz and his company, Amerispec. Fritz entered into an agreement with Ferrari dealer Chinetti Motors, his former employer, to modify and legalize a BB imported by the dealer. At that time there was no set process for determining whether an imported car met US government regulations. In order to resolve this issue, Fritz met with EPA and DOT officials to write a set of rules and tests to determine whether any specific imported car met legal requirements. Once these discussions yielded a set of enforceable requirements, Fritz began modifying BBs to meet them. This modification process, commonly known as "federalization", involved changes to the engine, instrumentation, lighting, seatbelts, and crash reinforcements. Amerispec's federalization process involved over 75 different changes. The front bumper and subframe had to be extensively modified in order to meet the "5 mph" zero damage standard in effect at the time. Carbureted models were modified with a secondary air injection system, catalytic converters, and various tuning adjustments in order to meet US emissions standards. The fuel injected BB 512i required fewer emissions-related modifications. The average cost to federalize a new BB was US$14,000.[16]

    After Amerispec proved the federalization process was legal and practical, other companies began offering federalization services. There was no standardized process for federalization and companies differed in their approach. As a result, many BBs entered the US in varying states of modification and compliance. Due to short staffing at the EPA and DOT, not all cars were rigorously inspected.[16] In 1990, new laws came into effect that forbid importation of all cars which had no comparable USA-spec model, unless the car is more than 25 years old. This ended the practice of federalization and outlawed further importation of BB models until they reached the 25 year old cutoff. While all BB models can currently be imported into the US without modification, some cars still retain federalization modifications from the "grey market" era. Removing these modifications can involve significant practical and bureaucratic difficulties for owners and restorers.[18][19][9]"

    While a few more will have come in beyond 1999-2009, they still wont be as common as across the pond.
     
  3. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    #78 375+, Aug 5, 2024
    People have been saying this for more than 10 years and prices haven't budged. When you factor in the depreciated value of the dollar, the cars have actually declined. Celebrate the opportunity to own a 12 cylinder berlinetta at a bargain price and drive the wheels off it.
     
    Jack-the-lad, Nembo1777, amenasce and 4 others like this.
  4. Marcel Massini

    Marcel Massini Two Time F1 World Champ
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    #79 Marcel Massini, Aug 6, 2024
    With 2'352 units produced (all BB variants) there are simply too many, they just are not rare enough (except the 387 units of the 365 GT4 BB and the 512 BB LM comp cars, a totally different animal).
    On top of that, unfortunately, many 512 BB and BBi's are pretty much run down, poorly maintained and often neglected. Proper restoration is costly, few are willing to spend the money, time and energy. No wonder are prices down.

    Marcel Massini
     
    Camlet1, ivo73, toparkt and 5 others like this.
  5. Ferrari 360 CS

    Ferrari 360 CS F1 Veteran

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    #80 Ferrari 360 CS, Aug 6, 2024
    I think to some extent this is also true of 365 GTB/4 prices relative to 275 prices.
     
    Texas Forever likes this.
  6. sixcarbs

    sixcarbs F1 World Champ
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    #81 sixcarbs, Aug 6, 2024
    If the lockdown spike didn't lift them up there, then what will?
     
  7. swift53

    swift53 F1 Veteran
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    #82 swift53, Aug 6, 2024
    The 365 GT4 BB, with triple exhaust pipes was absolutely great. Rode in one at Vallelunga in Rome,
    and was mesmerized by the driver (mostly) and the car. WOW!!!
    I would love one :)

    Regards, Alberto
     
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  8. Enzo Anselmo Ferrari

    Enzo Anselmo Ferrari Formula Junior

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    #83 Enzo Anselmo Ferrari, Aug 7, 2024
    I always thought that if I ever win the lottery my first buy would be a Blu Dino Met. 365 GT4 BB!
     
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  9. Zanny1

    Zanny1 Formula 3
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    #84 Zanny1, Aug 8, 2024
    People have been saying the same thing about the 365 GTC/4. Although 505 built, they have never appreciated as have so many vintage Ferraris. A great example will struggle to bring 250K. I know because I have had 2 of them. I still have 14633 and love the car...... don't care what it is worth.
     
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  10. LamboLover

    LamboLover F1 Rookie

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    #85 LamboLover, Aug 14, 2024
    Sotheby's listing shows this car was pulled from the auction, unfortunately. Wonder if she found a new home ahead of time.
     
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  11. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
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    #86 375+, Aug 15, 2024
    Any notable sales/no sales from Broad Arrow's first night?
     
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  12. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #87 Nembo1777, Aug 15, 2024
    Yes very quiet here, where is the usual yada yada money money blah blah?
     
  13. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    #88 JAM1, Aug 15, 2024
    It’s early in car week and the classic Ferraris haven’t really ran through the block yet. The only notable sale I’ve seen so far for Ferrari was the Broad Arrow F40 (classiche, platino award, 8,000mi US market car) sold Wednesday for a $2.2m hammer. It’ll be interesting to see how the classics do over the next couple of days, particularly the top tier cars.
     
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  14. JAM1

    JAM1 F1 Veteran
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    #89 JAM1, Aug 15, 2024
  15. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
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    #90 DWR46, Aug 15, 2024
    Broad Arrow's first night was rather quiet, with most cars not making the low estimate. Miura SV did well at 2.8. Sell through rate helped by lots of "no reserve" cars.
     
    readplays, Timmmmmmmmmmy and 375+ like this.
  16. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #91 miurasv, Aug 15, 2024
    A lot less than the $4.9m that SV 4972 fetched recently but 5048's history of famously burning in London would not have helped.
     
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  17. theowinstone

    theowinstone Karting

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    #92 theowinstone, Aug 16, 2024
    Blu Dino Scuro is even better :) just took 17771 for a blast - the sound the 365 BB produces is really spectacular
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  18. Nembo1777

    Nembo1777 F1 World Champ

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    #93 Nembo1777, Aug 16, 2024
    The six "machine guns" at the back help the sound experience;-)

    I drove a fully yellow 365BB at Motorcar Gallery in 2004 or 5. It definitely felt more raw, reactive than a BB512.
     
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  19. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
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    #94 TheMayor, Aug 16, 2024
    If you need an ad to convince you to buy this car you do not DESERVE IT.

    What the F is this? Trying to teach today's tech barons you need some class in life?

    Gee imagine how cool you would look going to Starbucks. Leave the Bimmer at home.

     
    Lusso123, 1monza, swift53 and 1 other person like this.
  20. ag512bbi

    ag512bbi F1 Veteran
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    #95 ag512bbi, Aug 16, 2024
    Tim,
    I really appreciate this thread EVERY year.
    Thank you,
    Armen
     
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  21. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    #96 merstheman, Aug 16, 2024
    They made a similarly gawdy ad about the 625 TRC. I refuse to post it here.....
     
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  22. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    #97 Bryanp, Aug 16, 2024
    I just watched that video of 0680MDTR; not sure what it was supposed to convey . . . But as a 4-cylinder guy, I am surprised that they have not included a single picture of the original 625 motor that it was born with. To me that is a major selling point . . . .
     
    miurasv and readplays like this.
  23. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

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    #98 merstheman, Aug 16, 2024
    Indeed, instead they thought it would be a good idea to have a stupid poem/monologue.

    (Although secretly if I had the money to buy it I think I'd keep the 250 engine in just because I'm jealous of the other 625 which will be even harder to buy off BM)
     
    readplays likes this.
  24. Bryanp

    Bryanp F1 Rookie

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    #99 Bryanp, Aug 16, 2024
    It's certainly easier to drive w/ the 250. If the 625 engine is anything like my dad's 500 Mondial engine, you had to keep your eye on the tach because a bucket of torque shows up at about 3500rpm . . . interesting if you are mid-corner
     
    turbo-joe, Admiral Goodwrench, simpen and 2 others like this.
  25. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

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    #100 miurasv, Aug 16, 2024
    625 TRC 0680 MDTR high bid not sold $7,900,000.
     
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