Drivers have a problem to get a free track with the trafic, finding slow cars on their warming lap, others on their cooling down lap, etc ... Some are impeded by other, or blocked at the exit of the pit lane. Many drivers slow down on purpose to ruin the fast laps of others, etc ... Some teams don't really manage qualifs properly, timing to release their drivers, choice of tyres, etc ... Messing up their driver's chance. I don't like one bit the present elimination system, and I wish we could go back to the 1-hour, maximum 12 laps system. Teams and drivers had more time to find their top performance; now some good cars and drivers are eliminated in Q1. Ideally for me, sending the cars one-by-one like a Superpole would be best; like they do at Indianapolis which I love. Qualifs were brought in to attract spectators on Saturday and sell more tickets, but they aren't strictly necessary. As each car carries a transponder, each lap can be recorded during the 3 practice sessions, giving the drivers plenty of time to go for a fast lap, and try to improve on it. At the end of the 3 practice sessions, the best time recorded by each driver would determine his position on the grid. Simple, and fair !!!
Sounds like you are describing a level of perfection required by driver and team. I applaud that. Traffic can certainly be a drag though. Even back in the 12 laps free for all during 1 hr qual, traffic was an issue. I don't think it has spoiled that many qualifying laps relative to the number of clean laps though. I remember they did single lap qualfying starting in 2003. This was definitely a lottery since track conditions always changed and not only could simple ambient and track temps make a difference, but weather could give some a huge advantage or disadvantage. Giving everyone the same conditions is fair. Leaving it to the teams and drivers to get it right. I like that.
Eff Wun is obsessed with making things more complex, and therefore more “exciting”. Of course. Indy is guilty as well, though, as they’ve tweaked the qualifying protocol several times in the interest of drama.
Weather can play a part in it too. It would be less of a factor in William’s suggested scenario as all drivers would have access to the same amount of track time.
Just an example of how it could be done comes from that backward, local, American series, NASCAR. For oval & road course tracks, they qualify in two groups, with the top five in each group placed in the top ten advancing to a second round. The rest are placed start with position 11 according to their qualifying time. The top ten go to a second round, starting in ascending order from slowest to fastest from round one. All starts from pit lane are set, and the car goes when the track managers determine it’s their turn. On ovals, the cool down lap and warm up laps for two cars could occur at the same time, but only the one car is on track for the fast lap. On road tracks, they are released at set intervals to avoid any conflicts. If a team isn’t ready in either round to go when it’s their turn, they get to go to the back of the grid. In this kind of approach, everyone would generally have the same opportunity, although weather would play a factor with the track getting wetter or drier, and with warming or cooling. Everyone, though, within these realities, would just focus on a balls to the wall best time, and not have any real or perceived distractions from other cars. Not a perfect system, but the all-at-once clogging of the track in F1 seems foolish. Sooner or later, someone will jog left when they should have jogged right and we’ll have an unfortunate outcome. It also distracts the fans (and TV) away from great laps IMHO.
I find the Indianapolis 500 qualifs one of the best show in motor racing. F1 is cat's piss compared to that !!! Sorry Liberty - It's over 3 weekends ! - Only 33 cars can qualify, regardless of the number of entries, so it's a true elimination process -The teams/drivers decide when to do their attempt - They use the average speed over 4 laps (usually nor far from 240mph) - Priority on the grid is given to those who qualify the 1st weekend - Late qualifiers can bump-off (eliminate) early ones if they go faster, so there is exitement to the end of the 3rd weekend - A driver bumped off can try to qualify again, but only with a different car. - That creates a cliff-hanging situation to the last minute For those who like tension and drama, this is it. Pity Indycar cannot repeat that at every race.
I must admit that I haven't followed the Indy qualifs in recent years, but I believe the general process is still the same.
You’re correct. The most significant change has been to the bumping procedures. The four lap average speed qualification for positions 1-32 is essentially the same except a few years ago I think they messed around with “pole day” or something.
Yes it is. The track and weather conditions are the exact same for everyone throughout the quali rounds. How a team/driver optimizes those conditions is on them. That's extremely fair.
All of that can be fixed by making a rule that out-laps and in-laps have to be within 5-seconds of the qualifying lap-time. If the tires can't put up with a regimen like that--then fix the tires. I love the Q1-2-3 qualifying, where a given car can get 3-4 chances in Q1, 2-3 chances in Q2 and 2-sometimes-3 in Q3. I find 1-at-a-time qualifying (like Indy) boring.
It's not a question of lap time, but where on the track slowing down really affects someone on a fast lap. Some drivers' names come repeatedly for blocking others by dilly-dallying in the approach of corners. Even a multi-WDC winner, would you believe !!!
I will say it again and forever; Monaco and any other course on which it is very difficult to pass (i.e. where your quali lap can be ruined by someone dawdling on the line) should have single car qualifying. Great show and everyone gets a fair chance. Don't argue about weather; in 99% of sessions the weather does not change. The current format leaves too much to chance and happenstance, be it accidental or intentional (cf Schmuckmacher Monaco Q 2006). One other thing: In 2003 when Montoya got pole in the Principality his lap did not get filmed, nothing...
Totally agree !! Also, I don't think single car qualifying is boring at all. In fact, you can concentrate on watching each car going flat out, when you cannot follow 20, 15 or 10 cars at the same time. The cameras on the circuit follow each car and don't miss anything of the action; they can't do that with plenty of cars. Also, this is why Superpoles were brought in in some series: to make it more interesting for the spectators.
While I agree with your post, what's the harm? I mean, Ferrari F1's culture hasn't been working(WDC and WCC titles) since 2008? What's wrong with someone coming in, like Newey, and making changes IF drastic that doesn't appeal the "Ferrari way?"
Monaco might have the most track evolution on the calendar. So when the track improves by half a second between the first and last guy in an era when 1 tenth is a can make a big difference, that is fair? The weather may not change according to the weather app, but conditions change in 100% of the sessions. Be it in track conditions from rubber or dirt or moisture. Cloud cover can change track temps by several degrees and since the Pirelli's are ultra sensitive, this can be a major factor. PS: Montoya didn't get pole in Monaco 2003, Ralph Schumacher did and there is video footage of it.
Never mind that; the difference will be much slighter than if you get someone blocking the track, that should be obvious to you. the Indy speedway has huge track evolution but all teams and drivers know it and accept it as part of the game. You win some you lose some. Thye have been using this system for many decades and no one complains about it, much better than F1 Q at tight tracks. Please don't split hair the weather is the same for everyone what you say is, again, obvious, the cards would fall where they fall. Again this is MUCH better than the traffic lottery. Juan Pablo pole: I meant 2002. ZERO footage as he said himself.
You can't use the word fair and then say you win some you lose some based on conditions. I don't think giving everyone a lottery in conditions is the solution for the relatively rare case that traffic actually spoils a qualifying lap. At Monaco, the tactic of spoiling laps on purpose due to crashing has been used multiple times and I don't should be used as the criteria to make a change. I think we've seen some very exciting qualifying sessions at Monaco in recent years even with traffic not being ideal. I still think Monaco should be removed from the calendar because of how awful the racing is. I just will never agree that single lap qualifying is more fair, or less of a lottery since it's the complete opposite. The way it is now, teams have the option to go out sooner at the risk of slightly worse track conditions to avoid traffic, yet they all choose to queue up in the last 2 minutes. There is also the debate about drivers having just 1 chance to get it right. On the one hand it demands more perfection from a driver, but it can also mean less risk of pushing to the absolute maximum. I tend to prefer drivers having multiple attempts at finding the limit. The one thing I do miss from single lap qualifying is we got much better coverage of each car's quali lap.
Qualifying should go back to 1 lap, on low fuel with no engine modes or bespoke qualifying equipment. You set the car up for the race, and your driver gets one crack at driving the car to the absolute limit. Period..end of story.
Set a rule whereby if driver A impedes driver B then driver A is put in the drop zone of that Qualifying session. Period. Impede == You get dropped. And we define impede as "if your conduct has added as little as 0.05 seconds to his lap time." It does not mater if you have won 14 WDCs; you get dropped.
For a place such as Monaco, 4-5 cars equidistant apart on the track would also work. One comes in another is waiting to go out and gets his chance. You stuff it like Michael -- you get dropped.
Simplify! And no driver can complain when he’s out there on his own. Qualifying order to be determined by some random method. All this stuff to (try to) have the pole qualifier to be determined at the last second is just contrived. It’s a shouting opportunity for the Sky guy….as if he needed another one. And the pole qualifier may not have set fastest lap…just fastest lap in so-called “Q3.”* *I wonder if this has ever happened when weather was not a factor.
