LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Tell that to the sales and ROI numbers...
If anything, Ferrari's only failing is their worst championship streak in their F1 history.

 

Well, a lot of us are unhappy with their recent direction, regardless of sales. I see it all over Ferrarichat. I also don't believe that high sales are necessarily indicative of a superior product. Just because certain music is popular doesn't make it good. I feel like they lost a lot of their passion in favor of keeping the shareholders happy and I know I'm not the only one.

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Whilst I don't disagree with the premise of your argument (that sales are not an indication of greatness), Fchat naggers are not the metric of greatness either. Unlike you, I feel that current Ferraris are the best in history. Unless we want to go back to the 348 era of mediocricy...

 

I think what defines a car's greatness is largely subjective. I prefer analog and others prefer digital.



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I quite agree with this statement.
PS: Typo on ,y last post: "mediocrity", not "mediocricy".

 

A lot of this post is just each of us projecting our own version of greatness on the car. Regardless of the power plant I do hope it is a beautiful, striking car like it's predecessors.

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in Europe electric cars sales drop, factory in germany reduce labour

 

There have been EV graveyards for over 10 years. This current Gen was already the driving dead
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The fake-ish part about the hot tube, aside from needing it to sound exotic in the cabin, is that it comes with an amplifier to create enough sound to hear. They've been doing this since at least the 599.

 

Not really. It is justt a tube that channels sound to the cabin. Now, if this tube amplifies sound naturally, it is just physics and not fakery.

 

Negative. It has a sound amplifying drum at the end like a tom-tom. Amplifies and filters.

 

I hope Ferrari will change direction, we have sucesyfull stories of consumer boycott, like when Porsche put turbo four cylinders to Boxters, sales where so poor that now Boxter (718) have NA V6 with red line around 9k

 

I really don’t see this at all. All three brands are just extending the philosophy they have been pursuing for years. The Tourbillon has the same main points as the Veyron 20 years ago. Jewel-like switchgear, beautiful but simple interior, massive power from a turbo engine, Bugatti-esque exterior borrowing heavily from the past. As for Pagani, exactly the same. Design flair that is bordering on over-wrought but still beautiful, trinket-like interior using leather, aluminium, wood. And Ferrari, using aero and chassis software, comparatively lightweight (against those other two brands) faster on track, in-house developed powetrain with modern tech including use of hybrid (they mastered it first with the SF90). You may not like hybrid or software or whatever. But their direction has been set for decades, as has Bugatti and Pagani. This is not a direction change because of Apple or RACE or Vigna or whoever.

Ferrari tech is nothing like Apple tech. It is the result of excellent automotive engineers beating much larger auto companies like VW group at the same game. Can you really say Ferrari’s direction is anything different from what other automotive companies are doing except interpreted for a supercar maker?

This line about ‘Apple tech’ is just a lazy slap. It works because there are Apple people on the board but it doesn’t meet with the facts we can see.

Maybe they stop producing ICE cars and everything comes out of the e-factory with an EV only drivetrain. If that happens, sure, we can all be annoyed. But it won’t. No point in criticising a company based on what you believe they might do. As Rralzeus says, their current cars are brilliant, usually best in class. The sales figures support that view too. Remember, most of the cars that became absolute classics were not so highly thought of at their own launch.

 

Heads on the board will need to roll for that.

 

On top of what Lukeylikey correctly said, neither Bugatti, nor Pagani, build their own engines. But the problem for this Forum is that Ferrari, the world's foremost expert on engine building, decided to put a race proven engine in the new hypercar...

 

The problem, and I think we should all think about it, is this "stupid" race for power.
Just yesterday I was watching the presentation of the Temerario. It becomes anything, it's totally unusable on the open road in the middle of traffic and no one is able to exploit it, except for the lovers of straight lines and slow turns... My friend is a professional driver, and told me "to find out if a car is usable, you turn off all the aids and you see if it accompanies you or if you fight against it to stay on the road".
We do the test with the STO in the mountains and it's just perfect, everything is homogeneous and tuned.
We did the test with the 296 which actually produces nearly 900 hp... and the risk of ending up on the roof of a tree was very great...
When a pro fights against a car to leave it on the road, it's a sign that it's become anything for the common person.
If this stupid race for power finally stopped, we could have NA engines with hybridization that run at 11,000 rpm, with less weight and more consistent power.
In the end, more emotion than these mediocre vacuum cleaners, because a turbo remains a turbo.

 

+1 chat boards are an echo chamber that don’t fully represent current or future market which is getting younger all the time…


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The next Boxster is going to be EV only, so they´ll need a bigger boycott.

 

While you make some fair points, Bugatti dropped turbos in favor of NA and Pagani went back to manual. Even Koenigsegg did their best to make their new cc8 feel like a manual. A lot of people feel we lost something about what makes cars great in pursuit of crazy times and being more environmentally friendly.

And no, Ferrari isn't going to drop ICE and go EV right off the bat. No ICE car companies are. That is a change that won't happen overnight, but over the course of a couple decades and it's already begun.

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Exactly this. Some (usually older) love to reminisce on how things were. The good old days! Younger tend to embrace new things more easily. It’s not an absolute of course, but certainly how things tend to go.

I love that Ferrari is trying something new. After all, if I want more of the same (another NA v12) then I have lots of options to choose from in their history. Almost all will be cheaper than trying to buy this one so that’s a win too!

Why shouldn’t they try something new? If you don’t like it, then celebrate that they did something cool but it’s not for you. I mean shoving a race winning engine in a new carbon hypercar is pretty damn cool to me. It’s not like the engine won’t be amazing..it’ll just be different.

99.9% of people on here can’t buy it anyway and if they could, there’s always the Enzo if you want that sweet v12 hypercar. Or the F50. Or the SP3. Or the Competizione. Or the…well, you get the idea. LOTS of options already exist. Time for something new.


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That’s the real point. I heard about one market where 3 have been allocated and the lucky recipients have 20-30 cars each in current ownership plus each bought SP2 & SP3. These are Ferrari’s top 500 global customers and all F250’s will be sold instantly.


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“Will be sold instantly” and already are. For those lamenting that it’s not a V12… for me Ferraris decision makes sense. For full transparency, I personally LOVE the V12 but I also get it from what I imagine is their perspective.

The SP3 is a NA v12 in a carbon chassis. The F250 can’t be another v12 in a carbon tub. It would just be diluted and not special enough compared with the SP3.

So they had to do something different and went with their V6 hybrid race winning engine. It’s not a crazy move. Their v12s aren’t race engines anymore and haven’t been for years.

If the LAF replacement is supposed to be a road legal race car then the race engine makes sense.


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The holy grail

 

to be fair, despite I hate idea of turbo V6 in "best Ferrari", no matter this engine win Le Mans, I need to admit that Ferrari take care of purist and SP3 is modern F50/Enzo successor

 

SP3 D while great was just a rebodied La Ferrari with more weight. The fact it was non Hybrid yet weigh more was poor on their part