LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Ferrari still do a V12 special edition, it is for the Icona series… that should settle that.

For the “Supercar” in Ferrari language the philosophy is not lead by design, or even the “driving emotion”. The Supercar has always been the the pinnacle of performance and engineering Ferrari can produce at that moment in time. In a package that their customers can realistically use on the road.

For optimum performance on track Ferrari’s engineers believe the formula for the F250 is the best at this stage. A Valkyrie may be able to compete in performance but how many of its owners should drive across Europe in that thing without booking an appointment with their chiropractor afterwards?

The one common thread running through Ferrari’s history is the V12 in a Berlinetta which is still available to all customer today. The supercar Ferrari has always been about optimisation, where that be a TTV8, V12 or V6.

 

* With the ongoing speciation from all of us and the amazing photos of prototypes etc by the likes of Tosi/Derek/Varyxx et al we can pretty accurately summise the outline , dimensions , stance of the physical shape of the F250 with elements of the 499P/KC /VGT…. Surprises/Reveals would be the Ducts/Grooves/Active aero flaps etc
*It would be very reasonable to accept ( like it or not ) that it will be a V6 with electric motors …. Surprises /reveals would be the exact output , the nature of the power split , etc
* The design language of the interior is likely to be a progression of the SF90 XX , but with elements of challenge /XX cars -…. Surprises /reveals may be some more analogue controls and a revamp of the steering wheel with 296 challenge steering wheel , and possibly some over the pilot control setttings …
* The Name is more guesswork although some mention of the 499P or LM or any of the other F80/Drake etc seems sensible - that means it probably won’t be one of the ‘usual suspects ‘ but a swerveball nake ….
* The numbers of cars produced is really a range

 

…. Sorry , my fat thumb pressed ‘post reply ‘!!

* continuation ….
.. the range of the number of cars produced seems to be coupe 499-599 , spiders 299-399 , XX 30-40..

With all of the above , I wonder what the biggest surprises will have been looking retrospectively back at all our speculation on a Sunday morning in 2 months time with early morning coffee/papers/youtube reveal videos ….. I’m sat here this Sunday morning looking at videos about Monterey this week , reveals there ( Temerario , Tuthill GToneetc), etc but have this hope/expectation that Ferrari will have just surprised us with a Masterpiece, a tour de force of emotive automotive excellence , that rests the hyper car bar and really really becomes the new benchmark . I can’t wait . Ferrari has never been in a more pivotal position imho- I for one I’m voraciously soaking up the anticipation - I’m certain this will. E the new Poster car ( Wallpaper/Screensaver) for a whole new generation …

 

It’s very embarrassing the weight of the top end Ferrari’s when you see what still can be achieved when designers and engineers try, ie Gordon Murray’s T50!

 

The Icona series is a focus/ celebration of design not engineering or performance.

 

And yet the T50 is slower than a 10 year old LaFerrari. Who is embarrassed now?

 

And must provide 100 times more driving pleasure on the open road than a 250...
Tours times are for professionals, for the average person outside of social dinners it doesn't matter...
There is theory and real life...
Driving pleasure is not about numbers !
There are more than enough in the GMA, especially since it is so light that compared to the weight you can add 300 in terms of sensations.

 

In what competition do you plan to field your car that you worry about its lap times?

 

Really? How so?

I get my kicks out of brutal accelerations/decelarations both in the X and Y axes. I even tried riding shotgun in a stunt plane once, but the Z axis proved too much for my stomach; that 's why I was in the Army and not the Air Force, I guess... Changing gears manually and heal-toeing is something I used to enjoy 20 years ago. I don't see the allure of it anymore.

Nowadays I marvel at the sheer capabilities of a machine, even if they surpass my own tolerances. I am sure you know that modern fighter planes have fly-by-wire controls, which means that the pilot is moving the controls, thus giving commands to the flight computer, and the computer actually controls the control surfaces as it sees fit, as this offers the best performance possible. Fascinating stuff!!!

You like the GMA approach? I don't judge, but that is like fielding a Churchill tank against a Challenger 2; you know that you don't stand a chance!!! No problem whatsoever with that and I respect your opinion. My problems is that you don't respect the opposite opinion and you think that whoever prefers newer technology is an idiot...

Oh, not even talking about lap times. When one pays several millions though, a certain level of performance is expected. The Valkyrie is a prime example of a car that is worth its price tag, unlike the GMA cars.

 

From the peel off the prototypes the launch colours seem to be a Giallo, a Rosso and a Nero …. They are surely going to have a commutative color for the F250 re 70 years in the USA and /or the centennial win at Le Mans - the customization for the F250 must surely be massive , especially compared to the 5 colours of the LaF…. Full carbon a la SP3 is sure to be ‘popular’ - albeit with a big (£500k??) price tag …
talk of T50 does nothing for me - I’m a fan of all things automotive , but for me , a ‘believer’ the f250 will ( please !!) be the top!

 

In his gran turismo 7 in PS5.

 

A white one either..

 

Not sure the LaF was available in just 5 colours. Perhaps you are referring to the Enzo?



Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat

 

Slower in what ways?

And how do you know? Has a T50 even been independently timed in any way? I would guess the T50 would be faster around many tracks than a Laf, especially after around 5 mins once the Laf's hybrid is over heating, the tires are melting and the brakes close to being on fire..

How much faster would the Laf be if it was 600+kg lighter and Ferrari did what they said they would and focused on much lower weights, instead of taking the easy way out and building cars that companies accountants say they can.....


T50 - 670bhp per ton- ( 1000kg - 670bhp)
Laf - 593bhp per ton (1600kg+ real world - 950bhp)

 

it wasn't.
Nor did Enzo.
F50 had only 5 colors, 2 of those being red.

 

Have you driven a Valkyrie or GMA car?

 

What is with this T50 comparison?! T50 seems to be a great car but it isn’t a Ferrari nor would it fit into any line or theme of car Ferrari has ever produced. If it was launched as the next Ferrari hypercar, the collective global laughter would reverberate around Maranello whose embarrassment would be hard to conceal, itself a source of amusement for some. “They tried to copy Gordon Murray?” The T50 is smaller than the 40 year old F40, it has the same power as the 20 year old Enzo, it is lighter than the 40 year old F40 by a margin (impressive), it has a manual gearbox - not faster around a track and not used in F1 for about 40 years. In what world would that be a suitable replacement for the LaFerrari, Enzo etc.?

Why does anyone have a right to expect Ferrari to build a car that is completely different from what they have done before because ‘I prefer it’? Sure, lobby Ferrari and ask them to have a go at this new idea of car. Ask them to try and beat Murray at his own game (they won’t, but nor could he beat Ferrari at theirs). But don’t lecture them on what they should build as their long-established hypercar, especially when it is fully in keeping with what has gone before. T50 and F250 are different worlds. They are not the same product and not the same market. What is wrong with celebrating what GMA have done and if someone likes it, buy it?! Ferrari don’t have the monopoly on automotive petrolheadism. Isn’t it great that things work that way? And how boring if Ferrari could build every type of product the best. Half of everybody would hate them and there would be only two forums; Ferrarichat and non-Ferrarichat.

We sell petrol, diesel, hybrid and EV automotive products. We had to learn very quickly that an EV cannot be treated simply as a car with a different powertrain. Everything in the structure of the market works differently so you have to adjust your approach accordingly. Ferrari and GMA have very similar distance between them. Good.

 

It's because Ferrari have become lazy and trade on their name more and more. They have the means to blow every other road car builder away, but they don't, they are just building cars that the accountants say they can.

 

Speaking as an accountant (originally) by trade, what a lazy, cop out comment. A good accountant will seek the long-term financial health of the business, meaning they will ensure the business builds the best products, at a profitable price, that the market will receive well, and will enhance and grow the brand. As if the money doesn’t matter. As if by taking care of the finances you don’t strengthen a company, its products, its supplier base, its customers’ wellbeing. It’s said too many times on this forum and needs to be called out. There are plenty of examples of car companies who ignored the bean counters resulting in catastrophe and I probably live in the region of the world responsible for most of them. They all died and it is a terrible thing, the scarring is acutely painful and is to be avoided at all costs. What other conclusion can be reached - that people who genuinely believe that Ferrari should ‘not’ listen to the accountants have no real love for Ferrari if they seek the same path?

 

As an accountant, what do you guess the profit margin is on a Ferrari Hyper car?

Then guess the same for the T50?

I don't really like the looks of the T50, but the concept is cutting edge engineering art, something Ferrari used to do, and were the best at.. Sadly now its all mass shared components, cheap looking ( and cheap to make) digital screens and haptics etc etc....

The fact that only the hyper car Ferrari's have carbon tubs tells us all we need to know about their current approach and profiteering.. I shared the driving of a 296 GTS for 3 days last week on the NC500 , i was devastated how flexible that cars chassis is. Scuttle shake in a £350k new car in 2024!! Sorry, but Ferrari are taking the piss.

 

I was referring to the LaF… happy to send corrected …

 

don't waste your time trying to explane anything to person under the nickname: REALZEUS, that person is Ferrari fanatic and even if you say that Mercedes G class is better for ofroad than Ferrari, REALZEUS still will disagree

 

The problem with the Icona is that it's too ****ing heavy, therefore lacks extreme performance.

Yet it should be. That's what has separated Ferrari from other supercar manufacturers and turned many of us into fans and buyers of the brand.

They can also attain that by using a high reving NA V12 or V10.

They do that cause the management is greedy and wants to cut down building costs. And due to GARBAGE environmental regulations.

Driving across Europe is not the point/purpose of a hypercar. It's purpose is to bring you extreme enjoyement and feedback when you drive it hard for a few miles during the weekend. Nothing more. It's not meant to be used for daily driving, grocery shopping or road trips. Those who also want that, go buy extra cars, I'm sure all who are offered this car can more than afford it. Back when I had the 458, I also had a 4 door sedan as a daily driver and a jeep for off road trips.

A Valkirie provides more driving pleasure than the F250 ever will. As a Ferrari fan, I was expecting Ferrari to offer something similar, yet better. They failed miserably when they decided to put a GARBAGE puny V6 in it.

 

Very well said buddy . T50 comparisons , talk etc may be justifiable across the general vista of automotive chit chat - however , the progressive build up to this F250 is a once in decade moment in the automotive landscape for Ferrarista and Joe public alike - different to GMA …. I think a T50 owner would be chuffed and cock-a-hoop at driving their car to wherever , rightly so … But , a big but , NO other brand /car would give most drivers the sheer feeling of special , visceral , weighted in history joy than the latest F250 hyper car would give - most I believe will drive theirs ( I know personally of at least 5 invited owners , of which 3 I guarantee will pile on the miles ) - I don’t think that most of the new lucky bunch of owners will be garage queen fans - the dynamic has changed generationally - I expect a much lower mean age of F250 owners compared to the 288/F40/F50/Enzo/LaF new owners of the past - I have no metrics but an anecdotal thought .

 

I agree completely.
Ferrari should have taken a somewhat similar approach to Porsche when it comes to its (Ferrari's) halo range: make the next one an improvement of the last while retaining driving pleasure and feedback. And the way to do that is by:
- gradually decreasing the weight, from one of its halo car to the next;
- gradually increase the HP, while keeping a high revving engine.
That's it, there's nothing complicated about it.