Nascar's Kyle Larson is better than Max Verstappen

F1 is the World Drivers Championship; it's the pinacle of motor racing. Like the WRC is for rallying or the WEC for endurance.
Aren't American interested in that challenge, when plenty of drivers all over the world dream of it ?
It's not the popularity at home in a national championship that matters, but the prestige of racing the top drivers worldwide.
It's not only European drivers who are interested in F1, but guys from Brazil, Columbia, Japan, Mexico, Russia and plenty of other countries who do everything they can to reach it.

 

By comparing himself to Verstappen he’s disrespecting Hamilton!

 

Since when are you fan of LH are even admire him?

 

While I agree with you, it's my perception that many of the motorsport fans in the United States do not share the belief that F1 is the pinnacle of motor racing simply because how can it be when it's not "American?" Therefore, they also aren't interested in the challenge and **** all to whatever other countries do because who cares? Maybe I'm generalizing, but I don't think so. Lately, I'm seeing more new fans in New York, but it's hard to say whether Liberty will have a lasting impact in the United States once F1 becomes old hat.

 

While many of us don't love Hamilton and will scrutinize, F1 fans will protect their own. 7x World Champion Hamilton stomps this chump.

 

You may be right, as I cannot judge the mentality.
The US like to participate in some international competitions that are not "home grown" for them.
Don't they try to dominate the Olympic Games and collect the most medals as mark of prestige and hegemony ?
Haven't they joined the Football World Cup (soccer) ? Those are not "American" !

I agree that it's more difficult to follow F1 which visits so many countries (time difference, broadcast, etc ...), rather than a national series where you could easily attend every race; that may be why. America has a very good single seater series in Indycar, but F1, even with all its faults, is really a step above that. I think Mario and Michael Andretti would agree with me.

 

Valid points. I think the difference is that there aren't variations of Olympic sports or Football/Soccer, whereas motorsports is different. Maybe we have an "our way (NASCAR, IndyCar) is the best/right way," mentality, generally speaking. We're sort of seeing that with Larson saying he can take Verstappen.

 

Remember Mansell? Moved to racing around circles in 1993 in the US after becoming F1 WDC in 1992 with Williams and proceeded to take the Indycar championship as a Rookie - in fact he took pole and the win in his first ever race. He replaced Michael Andretti who moved to F1 and burnt out very quickly….nuf said. Larson is just a loud mouth who wanted his 15 minutes of fame and got it in this social media era. But apparently some people are more easily swayed by “I am the best” claims than others.

 

Kyle will never compete for the F1 WDC, which would be the only relevant way to prove his very silly claim.

 

Competing in actual seasons of F1 is the ultimate test in motorsport.

A youtube segment of swapping seats for a track session would be "neat" at best, but in no way proves that person could climb the F1 mountain.

 

You guys should stick to F1.
Calling JJ “overated” is silly…Hendrick races 4 cars in the Cup series. How come the other 3 guys couldn’t give him trouble…in cars out of the same shop?
Chad Knaus is a good team manager but he’s not THAT good. And he got caught cheating a lot.

 

Jeff Gordon gave JJ plenty of trouble, in the 24/48 shop. Jeff was typically top 5 in points in that time. 5/88 shop had Dale Jr (meh) and a revolving door of Kyle Busch in his peak wild child days, Mark Martin at the end of his career, and Casey Mears/Kasey Kahne (more meh drivers)

Knaus was a great crew chief. I agree he's "just" a good team manager now. but 2001-2015 he was *the* crew chief in NASCAR, and one of the best all time. and yes Hendrick does have a culture of....pushing the boundaries on legality

as to JJ...1 for 100 in Xfinity...0 for 60-something in Cup without Chad....outclassed by all his sports car teammates...total embarrassment in IndyCar, in a Ganassi car. sorry, he's overrated.

 

^^^
Jeff Gordon: 4 Cup titles
Jimmie Johnson: 7 Cup titles
Giving someone "plenty of trouble" means someone giving "trouble" didn't win...

Since you're choosing to cherry pick the bad, I don't suppose you're going to bring up JJ's off-road career?

 

I don't really consider off road careers as particularly relevant (good or bad) because that's such a niche sport with relatively thin talent at any given time. and I do love Trophy Trucks, they're badass.

 

Jimmy Johnson and Chad Knaus took advantage of the playoff/chase system Nascar put in place. They were extremely strong in on the 1.5 mile D ovals and they maximized the final 10 races of the year. Fair play to them. You know how many Championships JJ wins under the old point system? 3. Meanwhile Jeff Gordon would have 7. Also you said it, they were a bunch of cheaters.

The fact that JJ is a 7x champ and can't win any relevant races without Chad/Hendrick and gets put to shame by mediocre drivers is exactly why he is overrated.

 

^^^
Everyone raced under the SAME playoff/chase system....so a level playing field.
Much like Hamilton being "overated", I just find calling any 7 time champion overrated just silly.
Certainly all the geniuses that buried Hamilton have been strangely quiet this year.

As far as "cheating"... the old saying goes:
"You can cheat if you want to, the crime is getting caught"
NASCAR has been loaded over the years with guys that cheated. It's part of the lore of the series. Not an excuse, just a fact.

PS. JJ is 48 years old now, he was 45 when he started in Indycar. No doubt, time had clearly caught up with him, especially driving a car that couldn't be more different from a stock car.

PPS. It's stated here that Johnson was 2 seconds a lap slower than Rockenfeller/Button at LeMans.
So I looked it up and found that he was also 4 seconds a lap slower...than I found that he was turning the same times...then I found he was 6 seconds slower...

 

Chad/JJ focusing on chase races is fair play to them. They worked the system better than the rest.

Hamilton and JJ are perfect examples of how overrated is defined. The fact people look at the most basic statistical criteria to define their supposed greatness. 7x champ, oh they MUST be the best. When you dig just a little bit and you find truths of they aren't as good as their stat line shows. It doesn't mean they aren't good at all, it just means overrated. Same as the likes of Lebron James. The biggest stat padder in NBA history, the league put him on a pedestal as the face of the NBA and people try to debate that he is the best of all time. A great player yes, but 100% overrated.

Nascar fans in particular love to idolize cheating. It's a such a weird concept to me. "if you ain't cheating, you ain't tryin hard enough" or whatever stupid saying you want to throw in to justify it. Winning by cheating is the act of not being able to win on merit of ability. How can one make the argument about a driving being so good when they have been caught cheating multiple times which by all accounts says that driver's success if by having an unfair advantage. It's similar to Jon Jones of the UFC. The guy is a walking PED laboratory that has popped a bunch of times. It completely excludes him in the GOAT conversation because he wins with an unfair advantage.

I get that cheating is part of the game in any sport and anyone would be naive to think that someone that got caught cheating is the only cheater out there. But there is a difference between a proven cheater and an alleged cheater. Once again, a little research into facts can really make a difference in these conversations.

Age in racing isn't the same as age in other sports. Being one of the slowest guys in Indy car has very little to do with age.

I stated he was 2 seconds a lap slower at LeMans. I saw the stint times of the drivers, that data is out there. It very well could have been 4+ seconds, but I know for certain it was 2+.

 

No where did I call JJ the "best"...jeez
And now Lebron is "overrated" also?
Right...

 

Lebron is "overrated." He even thought he was a Goat.

 

I think the word overrated is what you're having trouble with. A top 10 driver or athlete being considered the best ever would be overrated.

 

Again, I didn’t call Lebron OR JJ the goat. In NASCAR, most fans consider Richard Petty the goat. In basketball, most fans consider Michael Jordan the goat.
For me, I don’t believe in “goats”. Too many variables from era to era.

 

Nobody said you did. I said people do, and many do. At the very least many put them in conversations about being the best. Not to get off topic, but I would go ahead and say Richard Petty was overrated too.

The point is overrated is a relevant term. If an overwhelming amount of people said Logan Sargeant or Latifi were great drivers because they were in Formula 1, I would say they are both overrated as well.

 

2+seconds slower in a highly optimized Cup car. should have been child's play for JJ. it wasn't.

Button career Cup starts: 3

Rockenfeller career Cup starts: 5

JJ career Cup starts: 692

 

anyway, back on track

 

You guys are delivering this “2 seconds a lap” like it’s fact. Show me…
I found:
2 seconds slower
4 seconds slower
Lap times comparable
6 seconds slower

Call me… skeptical, especially once your “facts” circle the globe on the internet about a million times and go from “I heard JJ was 2 seconds a lap slower” to “JJ WAS 2 seconds a lap slower”