Shift fork rod interlock pins | FerrariChat

Shift fork rod interlock pins

Discussion in '308/328' started by s219, Sep 23, 2024.

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  1. s219

    s219 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2021
    473
    I am wondering if anyone has gotten a direct look at the shift fork rod interlock pins in the 308/328 transmission. There are three. They are there to prevent more than one gear from being engaged at a time (in the event something goes really wrong with the shifter or linkage). I have only seen photos and parts diagrams, but they are short fat "pill" shaped pins that go into the web in the inner-middle of the transmission case where the fork rods pass through. Conceptually I know how they should function but don't know the actual mode or how they are installed between the rods and the case web because there isn't an illustration for that.

    I have read in a few places that these can get gunked up and prevent smooth sliding of the fork rod. I would like to try and clean out that area when I go into my transmission soon to replace shift shaft seals and check overall adjustment of the shifter selector/fingers inside the transmission. I have some notchiness into the 2nd gate about 50% of the time that is unrelated to transmission warmup. I think it could be happening from an adjustment issue with the selector/fingers at the end of the shift shaft (although I find it hard to believe it would only affect 2-3), or the wrong detent ball or spring for the 2-3 rod, or sticky interlock pins.

    The notchiness sensation is an initial block and resistance pushing into 2nd that gives way and lets me follow through. I don't think it's a synchro problem (never any grinding and I hear the synchro spin up nice and smooth) although it's always possible the pins/springs/keys on the 2-3 selector hub are sticky. I'll be able to assess better when I am looking inside the case and moving things around by hand, except those interlock pins are hidden and not easy to get to without removing the fork rods.

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  2. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,539
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    Steve Magnusson
    The cross-section detail figure at the lower left of Fig 9 on page D14 of the 308GT4 WSM show the assembly.

    Fig 30 on page E33 of the TR WSM gives a better representation of how various notches in the fork rods are present, or not present, depending of where the fork rods are positioned to move, or not move, the various "pills" around. Of course, it's not identical, but it's a better figure for understanding how this mechanical interlock scheme works.
     
  3. smg2

    smg2 F1 World Champ
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    Apr 1, 2004
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    SMG
    I've posted photos, schematics etc over the yrs. There's a number of things that contribute to the notchiness of the gearbox. The detent pills are very cool way to insure lockout though. That detent and the spring ball locating are used to set the rod location first, then the selector fork adjustment is done.

    I've rebuilt a few of these boxes and so far they've all shared one thing in common. The synchro assy spring and pawls were all caked in gunk restricting their designed movement. Down side to the gearbox sharing oil with the differential clutch plates.

    It's a tedious job to strip the gearbox and all it's parts down. But when you've got torched synchros and or selector forks, and just tired and worn with either mileage or bad service history. It's needed. Straight forward gearbox to go thru. Parts are just hard and expensive to track down.
     
  4. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    I have in over 40 years never seen the interlocks cause a shifting issue. To do so the transaxle oil would have had to degrade so seriously you would have far bugger problems. There are lots of things that can and your time will be better spent there. If with the detent springs out and the shift fork bolts removed and the selector shafts turn or move in any direction even slightly the detents can be ignored.
     
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  5. rwbolt1

    rwbolt1 Karting

    Sep 10, 2006
    186
    Boerne, TX
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    Rodney Bolt
    t of curiosity, prior to a fluid change, is a transaxle "flush" product recommended (or not) to dissolve the "gunk" which might be causing shifting issues? I see these products on the shelves, but wonder if they are just snake oil and bigger problems in a bottle.
     
  6. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Wouldn't know. Have never had a transmission I considered a candidate so had no reason to consider the need. I have had a couple of transmissions over the years, one recently that seemed to never have had oil changes. They were worn out due to complete breakdown of the oils ability to lubricate and "Gunk" was not their problem. I guess I would classify that product as a solution looking for a problem. The gunk in the bottom was metallic paste. Washing that out fixes nothing.
     
  7. s219

    s219 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2021
    473
    Great thanks, that helps a lot. I think it answers my question. If the transmission is in 3rd, the side pills are already "parted" to each side by the 2-3 fork rod and it would be unlikely they could squeeze back inward to create resistance moving into 2nd since there are no springs involved. So I think that eliminates them as a source of resistance on a 3rd to 2nd downshift.

    I like how simple and clever this design is.
     
  8. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    On a 3-2 downshift the interlocks do not come into play in any way.
     
  9. s219

    s219 Formula Junior

    Aug 26, 2021
    473
    I have run into that on other gearboxes and it can prevent the synchro ring from releasing to pivot and let the dogs engage. All parts are speed matched at that point so it cannot grind but acts like the dogs are head to head and the gear is blocked, or the dogs can't push past each other without a lot of extra effort on the shifter. So I will pay attention to that for sure, since it describes what I feel very well. I would hope I could maybe blast those parts out with cleaner and air if needed without taking everything apart.
     

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