PTU: How to know if is is bad/will go bad?

You'll get stored codes/dash warnings for oil level and various malfunctions when the internal seals start to leak, the circlip retainers fail, and the sensors act up.

 

Sure you can clear them but they'll come back when you drive it once the hydraulic fluid leaks into the lubricating oil or shift fork bearing issues freak the computer out.

At this point with rebuilds so commonly done by numerous independent shops across the country it's not something to be hyper worried about anymore. Have someone with Ferrari diagnostics plug into the car and read it after driving, if no codes then you have nothing to be worried about immediately. Changing the fluids frequently is the only preventative maintenance you can do.

All of the early PTUs (pre 2015ish) will fail eventually. There were some small updates, and the failure rate so far seems lower on the late 15s early 16s and Lussos, but it's certainly not zero.

It's about a 10-15k job (not a 40k replacement) depending on labor prices where you are now.

 

Before I bought my ff, I was hyper concerned about the ptu.
I own a car with a original ptu and I haven’t thought about it once. When it happens I’ll deal with it but the cost really isn’t that bad imho. the failure of the top on my 360 was more expensive than this.

 

Based on the available data contributed by FChatters, this is not strictly true. In fact, the worst reported failure rate occurs among the 2015 and 2016 models. The 'small updates' were part number/supplier changes for the seals but no real design change according to those who work on re-manufacturing PTUs.
Here's the data.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

Here's the data for Lussos which suggests that the PTU is just as likely to fail in a Lusso as it is in an FF.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

That's useful data but it's missing context. What's the MY breakdown of owners on this board? Reported failures vs MY production doesn't give me any context. It also doesn't account for the paranoid group of people who've done the rebuilds proactively.

 

Thank you - but you’re asking for a level of detail and assurance which doesn’t exist and is impossible to gather. However, it’s still better than a blanket assertion that later models are less likely to fail. They aren’t.

There’s no reason to assume that the distribution of model years among owners on the board is unusual. And anyway, even if you were to poll that data, it’s not relevant as some of the cars with recorded failures are now longer owned by the forum member concerned. See what I mean about an impossible request?

I’m not aware of anyone on this board having the PTU rebuilt proactively. You’re clutching at straws there.

 

I imagine you could get an oil analysis done and see if any bearing material shows up. Fast forward to 4:20

 

You’re half right on this. You won’t be looking for bearing material as the failure mode of the PTU is not in the bearings, it’s in the selector fork seals. But doing an oil analysis will tell you if the PTU’s hydraulic fluid is mixing with the gearbox fluid or not. However, as @sfcarguy has already mentioned, the car’s own sensors will likely be picking this up anyway due to loss of hydraulic pressure.

 

I'm well aware it's data that's not easy to get. But that still doesn't mean concrete conclusions can be drawn from data with unknown context. What I'm trying to say is that it no one has truly conclusive data.

This has been the experience of my local indy and dealer, both of whom have rebuilt multiple PTUs. Limited sample size yes, but all contexts fully known.

First result on google https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ff-ptu.676813/#post-149121436

 

Very interested to hear this. Please can you share the context?

That’s a fair cop. Still, a single example isn’t going to skew the results dramatically, and especially not for the FF as this is a Lusso PTU that you’ve referred to and the OP is looking at FFs.

 

8 failures I'm aware of. All but two were MY14 and earlier FFs. All had over 30k miles and no record of either the hydraulic or gear oil being changed. 3/6 had seen a few HPDEs. All 6 suffered snap ring failures which caused the seals to leak and a loss of hydraulic pressure.

One MY16 failed after a tire blowout which caused some actual gear damage.

One MY17 Lusso suffered a seal failure within a year of delivery and was replaced under warranty by the dealer, unit was shipped back to FNA and deemed to be a manufacturing defect.

 

Thanks for sharing the data: But back to your original concern about context, I’m not seeing any more here than I provided. To ask the same question you did; do we know the model year ownership distribution of your sample (including the cars which haven’t failed)?

You’re also missing the context of how common pre MY15 cars are (which are included in the failure rate by MY charts). I’m assuming that one of your post 2014 failures was the Lusso. So your knowledge is of 1 post 2014 MY failure out of 7 FFs. That’s 14% of the total FF PTU failures that you know of.

Given that post 2014 MY cars only accounted for 16% of total FF production volume, I think it’s safe to say that the PTU failures you personally know of show no particular skew for either pre or post 2014 MY.

 

how is a 1-4% failure rate and .3-0.7% failure rate 'just as likely' am i missing something in your data?
to be clear not questioning your expertise on this topic at all. i've been following your thoughts/research on this point for years.

 

Apologies - I should have caveated the statement more heavily and you’re correct that it’s misleading without a caveat.

I was noting that the 2011 and 2013 FFs have lower reported failure rates on FChat than several of the Lusso cohorts so I was trying to get the message across that a Lusso is not necessarily any less prone to PTU failure than an FF as it rather strangely depends on the year of production. But you’re correct that on average, the observed failure rates in the Lusso are lower than that of the FF.

 

yea i saw a nice last model year FF on here for sale thinking it would be less prone to this but then the seller mentioned it was on its 3rd ptu lol

 

Ouch!

 

Please post a link to that listing, thanks.

 

https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/2016-ferrari-ff-354-msrp-recent-ptu-replacement-by-ferrari.694611/

 

Thank you!

 

That car first got a GTE Engineering PTU, which failed, and then was replaced by a factory unit.

Although looking at the other records, the history of bent wheels and shredded tires makes me wonder what the owner was doing with the car?