Does anyone understand the root cause of the F430 exhaust manifold failures? I’ve heard several theories: excessive heat blows a hole in the manifold; the wrong material was used to manufacture the manifold; the exhaust hangers are a faulty design causing the welds to crack; excessive stress in the manifold radius results in fatigue failure at the radius. Ferrari made two attempts to design a manifold, but they both proved to be failures in terms of longevity. The failed second attempt is surprising. What is the root cause of the OEM failures? It seems to me that in order to design and fabricate a manifold/header that will not crack/fail in service, the root cause of the OEM failures should be identified. But it’s not clear what is causing the failures. Perhaps what’s causing the failures is not important as there are at least six (6) aftermarket manufacturers of exhaust headers and all seem to have held up without cracks after installation for a period of several years or more. In fact, my limited research has not found one aftermarket header to have failed in service due to a crack or hole. And reportedly, some of these manifolds are manufactured in China. So, if I were trying to choose a manufacturer/supplier of a replacement manifold/header, what criteria should I use? It appears to me that the cheapest aftermarket header holds up as well as the high-dollar ones. And then there’s the discussion about insulating the replacement header. Some say it’s not necessary, but others say you need to insulate in order to protect the stuff that is near the headers. What’s the correct approach? I’m a new F430 owner and I’m already bamboozled about the exhaust manifold/header conundrum. And between this manifold problem and the absolutely absurd prices of Ferrari parts, I’m quickly becoming disenchanted with Ferrari ownership. Does anyone have the straight scoop on the exhaust problem? Thanks! Jason
I went Fabspeed with Inconel heat insulation on top. Excellent headers . Make sure whatever you choose they are equal lengths, and do insulate it. Original headers crack due to the rigidity of the mount in the back I read. IF yours is not leaking, just remove the 2 rear gearbox exhaust support mounts, and don't think too much anymore about it. I changed them as I did a software update and removed the thermocouples, and wanted more power ... which I got.
Welcome to the 430 club! You'll get a few versions of the header issue, but on my 1st 430, I pulled off the stupid U-bolts hold the exhaust (remove you rear diffuser and they're right there) which many have found to be the issue. I know that car is still on the road with oem manifold and is still just fine closing in on 35k miles. After missing that car badly, I bought another but it was too late...I heard the ticking of the port side manifold, so swapped out for new headers. No worries now, and the car sounds and runs better. As far as parts pricing, AW Italian and Scuderia Parts are great options with fair pricing. Scuderia will set you up with a personal rep who'll get you even lower pricing as well. If you work on your car, get a Thinkdiag cheap on Amazon and it'll everything you'll likely ever need it to do. And make sure you meet @flash32, the clutch/gearbox guru.
I have Jet Hot coating on mine, and no issues with heat even after spirited driving. But absolutely put some sort of heat protection on them.
Certainly one of those topics that every new F430 owner researches to death as it's always called out when referencing common issues. I think the consensus is that the exhaust was too rigidly mounted from Ferrari and the expansion and contraction of the manifolds is limited by the mounting brackets. Because of this, it places undo force on the bends/welds/cat element bond/etc. Wherever a weak spot would be as there is no room to expand and eventually something gives. This is somewhat substantiated by some people removing the additional binding brackets that mount to the transmission (which also crack) and only leaving the rearmost bracket that does allow for expansion. Past that, I think it's probably speculation. Even though we like to envision as Ferrari being superior in every way, sometimes something is done for performance over durability, and we see plenty of cost save items. It could be that the design was sufficient for their goals but had no way of being tested long term. Hard to say unless we get the engineer that made those decisions to chime in. Either way, the fix seems simple enough with an aftermarket exhaust of which none use the transmission mounted brackets. Aside from getting an aftermarket system (or running a new OEM for 30k-ish miles at a time), it is never a bad idea to insulate the heat coming from them. To me, it cannot be enough as long as it's not to the detriment of the headers themselves. The most recent F430 burning up at the gas station should be a reminder that things get very hot in there already and excess heat causes faster degradation of everything in the vicinity. It's hard to even go by "I've been running it that way for years" arguments as running it for years in Ferrari terms could be a few thousand miles. So, while someone might say it's perfectly fine to go without any heat protection, I wouldn't
From both my 06 & 07 430’s. Those mounts belong straight in the dumpster. I’d actually put a small wager that you’ll find at least one of them already cracking when you pull your diffuser.
I'm still a firm believer that it's the fact the front cats that are inside the OEM manifolds (not in the challenge version or aftermarket) that cause a lot of heat cycling and expansion/contraction inside the manifolds. When coupled with the rigid rear brackets, you have additional stress on the manifold when they expand. When you remove the OEM manifolds, the engine compartment gets a lot cooler than with the OEM, and that includes the fact the OEM manifolds have heat shielding, so you can only imagine how hot it is inside the OEM manifolds.
Agree—/ heat stress adds to incredible combined loading which cycles and eventually exceeds the material capability.. you are asking alot of this poor header design.
Now that's certainly a thought-provoking statement. I wonder why the OEM exhaust is supported/mounted to the transmission but none of the aftermarket exhaust use the transmission support? This statement suggests that the root cause of the OEM manifold failures is centered around the exhaust brackets. Perhaps I should remove the transmission exhaust brackets on my '07; it seems I have nothing to lose by doing so. I assume these are the same ones that swc5150 referred to in his previous post? Jason
Fabspeed makes brackets that attach to the transmission... They are optional and rigid in one direction and flexible in the "correct" direction whereas the factory brackets are completely rigid. Image Unavailable, Please Login
to be fair, the stock exhaust is incredibly heavy and was likely determined to need the extra support.
I thought about that after posting. I have some 8,500 miles on my '07 F430 so I imagine I will experience exhaust failure within the next several thousand miles, hence all my questions and concerns. The good news is that I have not heard of any aftermarket exhaust failures, which makes the selection process easier. Jason
I have the Capristo brackets on my 2009. It’s got 15,000 miles on it and so far, so good. Maybe another option to look at. They want crazy money for them for what they are, but if it stops your manifolds from cracking it’s a cheap fix.
Thank you for that suggestion, Extreme1. It's my understanding that the '08 and newer F430s have a better manifold design, so that coupled with your new brackets should be effective at preventing manifold failure. Jason
Yes that correct. They are called the Mark II manifolds. Apparent they still have issues. I’m also a believer that they are mounted too rigid. Someone on this Forum did a test to see how much the manifolds grew when hot. It was somewhere b/t 1/4” and 1/2”. On my Capristo brackets I can see the scuffs on the brackets where the springs and washers have moved.
My car had the Mk2 manifolds for 12k miles when I bought it and they looked like new. I removed the brackets when I bought the car. I think the OEM's are a good option if you remove the brackets.
Yes, the previous owner left them on. They had also cracked and were replaced by the dealer under warranty. It had been driven with the brackets for some time after the new headers were put on so I made it a point to remove them immediately and swap out the exhaust. Haven't replaced the headers but I plan to in the future.
Hey JPCIII, Congratulations on your purchase. I am the guy that did a variety of measurements on the growth of the exhaust system as it heated up. I wrote several notes on what I observed. I ultimately concluded that the design of the stock exhaust system is badly flawed. Looking from the top, the stock exhaust and many aftermarket units make a closed loop. The engine is at the front. Moving to the back you have the manifolds and the cats. And closing the loop at the back is the muffler. Everything is rigidly attached at room temperature. Then as you drive your new toy, the exhaust system gets hot, really hot. Now thermal expansion takes over. The muffler expands more than the engine which tries to open up the back of the closed loop. The manifolds and cats expand and try to push the muffler to the back by about 1/4 inch. The manifolds may try to "twist" but I had no good way to measure this. If it happens this would increase the stress levels. Now look at the stock mounting. The transmission mount is the worst part of the design. This rigid mount tries to keep the thermally growing manifold from moving. Something has to give and typically it is the trans mount but it probably did the manifold no favors before it failed in fatigue from repeated heat cycles. Now move to "diving boards" that support the rear of the muffler. As the exhaust system expands, the diving boards flex to let the system grow. But the diving boards are way to stiff and their mounting effectively increases their stiffness. As such, the exhaust system is once again restrained from grow to the back. I built much thinner diving boards and was happy with the rearward motion they permitted and they were a lot cheaper than other aftermarket options. The problem is that in trying to support the weight of the system, they permitted no vertical motion. I felt like I was putting patches on a bad design. So then I looked at a lot of other solutions that cars use. Almost all have some level of rubber "soft mounts" to allow the system to grow as needed. Even my 1933 Pontiac has this. Fortunately, someone at Ferrari had actually developed a solution. They called it the sport exhaust and it has separate mufflers and supports for the right and left side. And happily, the mounts are rubber bushed and soft mounted. Now the left and right can grow independently and are supported softly in all directions. I found a used system and have not looked back. Now to your concern about cracked headers. Will my investigation insure the headers will not crack? NO. I do not have a enough data to make that call. However, I do believe that the sport exhaust reduces the heat induced growth and resulting stress to a minimum. I have smoke tested my headers twice and am confident they are not cracked. But I do have another used set on the shelf. I hope this helps. Enjoy your ride.
Thank you for the well composed response to my query. I'm beginning to be afflicted with option paralysis. I now see four (4) options: 1) Install the OEM Sport Exhaust (if I can find one) 2) Remove the OEM exhaust support brackets and install the Capristo bracket 3) Remove the OEM U-bolt portion of the exhaust support system 4) Install an aftermarket exhaust header (which supplier, or does it really make a difference?) Am I missing an option? Which is the best one? Jason
GogglesPisano has a good point. At a minimum I would remove the bracket that ties the manifold to the transmission. From an engineering standpoint I feel it is totally ill conceived. All it does is induce undue stress in the manifold which is exactly what you want to avoid. "Softening" the rear mounts with a capristo bracket is a plus but I think it is an expensive partial patch. Many guide their decision by the sound the system produces. Go for option 3 and drive the car for while. Do a smoke test if you are concerned about header cracks (building a smoke tester is pretty easy with lots of on-line videos). I went thru the same concerns when I got my 430. Two exhaust systems later I am
OOPS! Somehow I posted the comment before I was done typing. Anyway, two exhaust systems later I am very happy with the sport exhaust system. But then I also occasionally listen to the radio LOL
