LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

Different strokes for different folks!

 

I don't think a black roof has ever looked good. Nor have black wheels for that matter.

 

^^ This.

As I wrote before the unveiling, the roof needs to be black—in fact I believe it’s bare CF, yes?—to tie into the graphics of the black door top scoop that leads to the ‘NACA’ scoop.

A body color roof results in base of the colored A-pillar looking like it’s floating on a sea of black.

 

Doesn’t make that much difference either way. The car is an ad hoc assembly of Ferrari catalog racing bodywork bits that is incohesive, and flaccid despite its complexity.

Combined with the also flaccid sounding power plant, the entire package lacks oomph.
It’s just forgettable isn’t it.

My fellow Ferraristi … we are witness to a realization dawning in real time … that the all time peak of Ferrari Hypercars is now behind us, not in front of us. It peaked with the LaFerrari.

 

My experience with seeing a new design, you need to see it in person and in person in motion. The early static shots and videos of the static car almost never give you the full appreciation. It does help if there is a person next to the car to give it an understandable scale. Then there are the pictures and videos of the car in motion, which help. Finally, there is seeing it in person and hopefully you can see it moving in person.

FWIW, I think part of the design is the interplay with the black elements- by painting them, you are reducing this element of the design. Even though I like how it looks with all the black parts painted in red, I actually think it makes the overall design less cohesive (because there are still other black elements); but I would have preferred they come up with a design where these black elements were not such prominent elements. Although we see the connection to the Dodici Cilindri; I also see a connection to the blade motif that is present on the 812 Comp, and some F12tdf have this as well. I also see some of the SF90 bow head. As it is, I think they should have done something where the headlights were less distinguishable, because their presence breaks up the black graphic motif on the front- if the idea is to have this black band, then they should make it really black. Perhaps moving panels, Ala SP3…….

 

Thank you, Sir.
That helps. If only a little.

Marcel Massini

 

This is a strange comment to make. Do you believe the LaF or F12 is anti-social? Of course not. The Ferrari hypercar of all models should sound like all Ferraris of its class have sounded across history. No one has ever been offended by the sound of these magnificent vehicles. Please don't compare it to a tuned junkbox. These are the finest specimens of automotive art and performance and carry the pricetag and exclusiveness to match. They must look and sound the part. If this car does not have the sound then it is a big knock against it.

What I don't understand are those that tout the "inside" sound. Amplified (electrically or not) sound to make up for poor sound is not a substitute. By this standard a simple recording should suffice. Its just not how quality sound has been has been measured. No auto journalist has ever or will ever count the beautiful engine medley that has exemplified the Ferrari brand since the beginning as a negative. I've been around a long time and I can say that its certain social groups that have an issue with sound and not the buying and enjoying automotive public. They love the sound of these things.

 

The most significant reason sound is not great is EU regulation 540/2014, which regulates sound from automobile noise.

It states that as 2024, passenger cars have a maximum sound level of 72 decibels. By July 1st, 2026, passenger cars will be reduced to 68 decibels.
That is incredible low in sound volume. 72 decibels of sound volume is the sound level of a vacuum cleaner or TV at a normal volume.

I had measured my TdF with the valves open at 108 db. Thats the 8x sound volume of my TdF compared to a 2024 car. And 16x sound volume of my TdF compared to a 2026, which has 68 decibels. 68 decibels of sound volume is the sound level of 2 people talking at average volume. They are talking towards each other from 1 meter.

If you measure sound intensity, the TdF 108 db / 2026 EU rule is 68 dB. So that's a 40db difference. That's a 10,000x difference. Sound intensity is the amount of sound energy that moves through an area in a certain amount of time.

So, all manufacturers will be hit with sound regulation in 2026. Will they petition? Will someone resisting pay a penalty as a form of taxation and then pass that through to the consumer? Yes, the consumer would get hit, effectively passing more of his money to an administrator for a rule violation in the words as opposed to the spirit of the law.

The base sound of this powertrain probably sounded better than the 296, which as hybrid turbo charged V6, sounded really good IMO. But then they are muffling the sound. How would be interesting to know. So this is part of why I think the sound has been affected. The new EU 72 / 68 decibels in 2024 / 2026 years sound change. Affecting all passenger cars in the EU. (maybe not some ultra ultra low volume).

 

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Photos by:
1. Nicolo Lovato
HD: https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fferrari-f80-at-finali-mondiali-in-imola-v0-rxoce36o7cwd1.jpeg%3Fauto%3Dwebp%26s%3D18f303d36ab1d68c69e0afd0bf15cc50105b9903
2. Francesco Carlo
HD: https://www.flickr.com/photos/fcarphoto/10834689783/sizes/k/

 

Here is the actual Regulation: REGULATION (EU) No 540/•2014 OF THE EUROPEAN PARLIAMENT AND OF THE COUNCIL - of 16 April 2014 - on the sound level of motor vehicles and of replacement silencing systems, and amending Directive 2007/•46/•EC and repealing Directive 70/•157/•EEC -

Look at page 158/162, Annex III:

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If I'm not mistaken, the F80 is category M1, and it would fall into the category of >200 kW/1000 kg with less than 4 seats and driver seat lower than 450 mm from the ground, which means the limit is indeed 72 dB for the F80.

I'm not about to read the complete Annex II on how the sound is measured, but I think valved exhausts and drive modes exist for a reason (full throttle without kickdown in comfort/wet mode, valves closed gives a very different result than full throttle in 1st/2nd gear with valves open), and I don't think the TdF's 108 dB with valves open is representative of how sound is measured. If there weren't any caveats/tricks, a car like the T.50 would never be allowed on the road.

Again, I have not studied the subject in-depth, but I think that with per bank of cylinders one turbo, two cats and one GPF, the sound is going to be close to or under 72 dB without much additional measures (with valves closed etc).The 296 GTB does have two GPF already, and it is pretty quiet no matter how they drive it.



The full silver 296 looks stunning by the way.

 

I can tell you French’s are really fed up with this EU which is blocking everything on economical side ( agriculture, industry..)
Their dictatorship about producing norms for everything and imposing this to people is just unacceptable..

 

I look forward to you reintroducing the guillotine!

 

These two pix say it all.
Thanks.

Marcel Massini

 

Be happy that you don't live in Switzerland........... where they are throwing stones at you when you drive an F12 with stock standard exhaust.

Swiss police trying to f.cuk me in the city of Zurich, claiming I made too much noise (I was driving in automatic mode at approximately 10 miles speed). Officer V. F. lost.

Marcel Massini

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Said EU dictatorship mostly comes from Germany, France, Belgium and The Netherlands.
Mass media claims climate is changing dramatically and the end is near. Thus save the planet with new norms.
But let's discuss such stuff better in P&R.

Marcel Massini

 

Spectacular and dissuasive..

 

F80 it’s very impressive presence

 

Did anyone say this about the FXXK

Did anyone feel this way about the FXXK? Did anyone have to say to us, “Don’t worry, once you see it in motion … it grows on you.” ?

It amazes me how so many people on here will bend over backwards almost literally to try to rationalize and excuse really poor designs just because they love the brand.

I love the brand too. Which is why when they cock it up, or they are getting it wrong directionally, I’m going to call them out.

 

If the design was not a priority this time, that is why we had naked cars for few months, which is a rarely seen, if ever, with them.
Sound obviously wasn't, also.
Accent was on advanced all-round aero package with state of the art suspension and driving dynamics.
So should be viewed more from that perspective. And there it delivers.
My thoughts only , I wish then they went for overall smaller car, they could have make it 200 or 300kg lighter .
300hp from electric motors? I definitely thing there is more, maybe that explains the lunch of sound because ICE is just not working too much with all those e motors.
Wish they went vision gran turismo for front end inspiration. Or flared edges like f40.
But then, I preferred Laferrari to Enzo by a mile, even if later is designed by Pininfarina.

 

The issue at hand is the definition of anti social. This changes over time. As cars in general get more quiet, what seemed a little loud in the past now seems even louder. This will be different for each person. The EU regulations are clearly designed to kill any emotional connection to the car. It’s clear to me that we just lived through a true peak golden era for cars 2010-2017 (+/- a few years and with some exceptions outside this range).

Why would the EU look to kill one of their most important industries/ why would the manufacturers go along with it/ I think Im treading into another section…

F80, let’s hope the sound on the inside is a lot better than the outside! Almost the opposite of the Porsche CGT- where the shame of it is you don’t hear a lot of the glorious engine inside the cabin, but you will hear it if you are outside.

 

Someone here may argue that it is so cynically effective, boring, and not very visceral....

 

Less painful death execution it seems either..
Nobody really answered this question ..

 

For all of you who are totally focused on the sound, I have a simple solution, Novitec or Tubi aftermarket exhaust! DONE! So now we don't have to talk about sound anymore

 

Sucks it was not sunny, great to see the car from so many angles driving...