LaFerrari replacement: v12, no hybrid, less power than SF90stradale?

I wonder if that makes sense in this car...

F80 does not have turbo wastegate which reduces the sound a lot. Instead, it uses MGU-H to convert the excess turbine pressure to electricity. Because of this, F80 is apparently the most silent car ever produced by Ferrari. But not for long...

Efficiency and noise don't walk hand in hand. F80 should be respected as an engineering achievement with F1/Hypercar tech. For noise, it is better to focus on other models.

 

Small correction. F80 must be having wastegate too, but most of the time excess turbine pressure is handled by MGU-H.

 

I really like it and appreciate the originality of the design but also the attention to details, especially the subtle surfacing details that are not instantly evident.

Ferrari could have done a car that looks like all those other crazed 1000 hp cars with flick-ups, flaps, exaggerated rounded and curved surfaces, etc., that end up looking like a 12-year old’s dream car. Inside they did a car with clean lines, original elements and still maintained aero performance without visual exaggeration—or what I call “aerodramatics”.

 

The car looks to have zero body roll, it's so level throughout all the corners, impressive.

 

No body roll is a strange sensation and takes getting used to. My Puro and Taycan TGT corner totally flat - it's freaky. I imagine it'll feel less pronounced in a low riding hypercar.

 

Having enjoyed the sounds of V12s at GPs over the years I appreciate the uniqueness of their distinctive sound—distinguishable even in a field of equally loud racing engines. I also heard turbo’d 120 deg. V6s and they were anything but boring. A healthy sound is nice, especially the harmonics of a V12, but the one LaF I heard—not sure if it was modified— was much too load and conspicuous for a street car. Also, depending on noise regulations in effect loud exhausts are just wishful thinking.

BTW, the best examples of the goodness of the V12 sound are the Daytona drive-by scenes in ‘Gumball Rally’ that captures—apart from the Doppler effect of the car going away—the delightful harmonics and fluctuations of the sound.

And about the interior sound: if you’re driving the car, you should only care about what you—inside the car—enjoy for your listening pleasure, whether it’s filtering into the cabin organically, or piped in, though not synthesized electronically. On the 599–and probably its various successors—the front fender vents were described by Ferrari as for piping sound to the cockpit rather than an aero or cooling function. Apart from some of the exhaust note—hopefully not a droning sound—that makes it into the cabin, what is the concern about what the car sounds like from the outside, unless you’re standing behind it while it’s idling… or driving through a tunnel?

 

The concern about what the car sounds like from the outside, is that apart from the few thousand people that own a Ferrari supercar, the other 8 billion people can only enjoy them through sight and sound. The issue here is that the poors feel entitled to enjoy cars they don't own ;-)

Being one of the poors, I enjoy Ferraris mostly for their sound, and secondarily for their engineering and design. But I am perfectly happy enjoying past Ferraris for their sound and design, so I couldn't care less what the F80 looks or sounds like, I am only interested in the engineering (and the tantrums on Fchat).

 

You are historically right, of course, and very properly passionate about the wonderful sounds of these masterpieces. I can’t remember if you’re US- or Euro-based but in Europe things are changing, in fact have changed. When the exhaust sound is loud and the car is being driven quickly and in the upper rev register, it attracts unwanted attention these days more than it did. Fast driving is much harder with an overly loud car. Even on track, many stock Ferraris struggle to meet noise requirements. I’ve been warned plenty with Speciale but not with Pista or SF90. I have even been stopped for making too much noise on the road in a GT3 RS!

On this basis, a nice sounding but quieter car is more usable. If people want to buy the car to put it in a garage, simply satisfied with knowing it can reach 100+ decibels, then the F80, SF90, F8 etc. don’t suit. But in my opinion rightly, Ferrari want people to be able to use their cars - I personally prefer it that way around. I want to be able to drive plenty, in all kinds of situations, across Europe. If this is the only way it is acceptable then so be it. But…the car still has to sound good, a nice sound, sporty and inspirational to the driver. I think this will be the case for the F80. The 296 is the same. V6s naturally sound better than flat plane V8s.

Which leads to cabin noise. Nobody likes artificial sound, but you don’t need artificial sound to deliver great cabin noise. The GT4 RS intakes are sited in a place that puts this sound in the cabin. That is simply engineering and there is nothing fake about it. Intake noise is a much more honest noise than exhaust noise. Intake noise is purer and more mechanical than an exhaust sound, which is always tuned and has been affected by cats for decades now. A 675 LT with roof scoop offers a very different sound to the standard car. Nothing at all wrong with that and those cars carry a premium today for good reason.

We have a GT4 RS and it sounds fantastic. It serves up all the noise you could ever want and it’s a good noise. It is spine-tingling and leaves you in no doubt about its pedigree, intentions and sportiness when you press on. I never use the sport exhaust button. Why would I? Have a great time on the inside, don’t annoy people or attract attention on the outside. In 2020’s Europe that seems to be a perfect solution. It gets under your skin that car.

 

I think part of the problem could be that the V6 is simply not a good sounding race engine. I don't think anyone can honestly say the 296 GT3 or 499P provide an aural experience trackside.

I watched part of this year's Daytona 24 from the outside of T1 when the cars entered the braking zone. AMG GT, Lexus and Mustang were thunder. Huracan and GT3 R were screamers. The M4, Vette and 720 didn't sound great, but at least had some volume. The 296 GT3 was nearly silent by comparison.

 

They could have easily fitted an exhaust bypass. which would have made a massive sound difference.
Ferrari have become to PC while others within the same rules and regs archive better results

 

I don’t think any of the engineering of this car is ‘easy.’

 

That's why I'm warming up to the looks. The tech involved in generating the downforce is amazing,

so the form follows function rule applies.

 

The engineering of the car is amazing. They are obviously trying very hard to push the envelope on all fronts with this car with both engineering and aesthetics.

 

The engineering on the V6 is amazing Dino and Even Enzo would be proud of a 3L TT V6 putting out 900hp at 9250 RPM.
But that doesn't mean Ferrari fail in areas where there was a solution. Many would say that if Bugatti can get an 8L V16 road legal and not sound like a mouse.
why couldn't Ferrari.

 

I would say that because the program of this car was to mimic the race cars it became a TTV6 which is quiet. No mystery. If you want a V12 sound by the Daytona SP3.

 

V6 are not quite on most cars let alone Sports or supercars. I know why the V6TT was used that's not the issue. It the lack of sound. It's unforgivable. Its well within Ferrari realm to have corrected this. Sound is part of Ferrari's DNA

 

The question is if the quiet nature is a product of the tech on this car or intentional….? The 296 sounds good.

 

I express it to you again in a clear way. From 2026, production cars will be homologated with 68 db. Nothing better than the alpha car to ensure this transition, and then the transition to EVs. Everyone is free to like or not, and to express their feelings. But let's be honest and conclude that sound is part of the Ferrari DNA, and that they are both part of a past. Facts are facts, and we cannot modify reality according to what suits us !!!
I was 5 meters from the car in Imola and I confirm to the skeptics that we hear nothing.

 

When are Ferrari planning to switch to all electric?

 

It will depend on the evolution of the regulations between 2030 and 2035, and if it allows it there will always be hybrid.

 

I think when Ferrari launch those 2 new EVs in 25/26 they are in for a rude awaking. 500K plus lmao

 

I never imagined seeing, on FerrariChat, people being critical of a more prominent sound.

The sound, present in Ferrari's DNA since its foundation, is a characteristic of more than 7 decades. A powerful Ferrari is linked to a beautiful sound, they are intrinsic.

It's the same thing as God replacing the sound of thunder with the buzzing of a spark. You would not see thunder in the same way as before.

If, in Europe, there are people who look disapprovingly if a person passes by in a sports car with a nice sound, one day these same people will say: "But why do you need a car that goes over 120 km/h?" or "Why do you need a bright red/giallo sports car? That color draws attention and bothers my eyes" or simply "Why do you need a sports car?". In my opinion, these type of people are dissatisfied with everything, and delight in the fact that the world suffers from regulations.

And so everything ends, dies, until the day when everyone will drive the same electric cars (cars?) full of screens, wear the same clothes, use the same phones, ...

When I go out to drive a sports car, I don't even think about any negative reaction, but I really value the positive ones, the many people who give a thumbs up, the children who come happy to take a photo, ask for a revving to record a video, and so on. Driving a sports car, even when you're alone, is a collective experience, and it brings joy and inspiration to many people.

This kind of genuine happiness that the "regulators" want to end.

 

Thanks for your insight. I am US. Sad for your condition. We have exactly none of your concerns about sound. We love the sound of a stock exotic which is a big part of why we buy them. Recall that Ferrari polled buyers not that long ago to rank the qualities of Ferraris that are most memorable and the sound was rated #1. The F80 does not need to sound like crap in the US especially since most buyers for this vehicle will place it in their permanent collection and trailer it to show events. Should it have had a glorious sound it would not have even had an opportunity to offend any visiting EUs!

 

This is called socialism.
You don't own anything anymore and are still happy.
Everybody is the same, wears the same. Drives a bicycle. No more emotions whatsoever. No more fun is allowed. You just (have to) function.
Remember the old German Democratic Republic (DDR)?
Again, this probably needs to be discussed in P&R to avoid banning.

Marcel Massini

 

^ Mind-boggling how anyone (even slightly) liberty-minded would willingly vote for such fraud, isn't it?