296 VS

There are two things going on here.
Everyone knows the press won’t dare speak out, and, telling to the world 799 are sold means little to the majority who look, listen, spot the obvious, and have spoken. SF80 ownership is essentially based purely upon status and a showing of wealth.

Comparing SF80 to FXX EVO in the below vid only shows a very sad state of affairs.

 

The F50 has a carbon tub, a stressed mid-engine, a screaming F1-derived NA V12 (from an era when F1 engines were still exciting) and a manual. It even has an open top. It's the recipe so many of us long for today.

But when it was launched, we didn't know that the F50 would be the last of its kind. It seemed obvious that these were the ingredients for a supercar. Why would they ever build something different?

In that context, the outstanding mechanicals received less attention than the styling, which looked a bit awkward and fussy. It still does. But all is forgiven today because everything else about the car is perfection. And now we know that, sadly, this was the first and last of its kind.

It's a case of not knowing what we had until it's gone.

What parallels can we draw with the F80? What are we saying about the car now? It's going to be bonkers fast. It makes a ton of downforce. It has impressive tech. (And awkward styling.)

But the next hypercar they produce will be faster, make more downforce and have tech that makes the F80 look quaint. Once that's out, what will make the F80 seem special beyond its place in the hypercar lineage?

Maybe the next one will be a four pot, or God forbid, an EV. If so, yeah, it will be another case of not appreciating what we have until it's too late.

Even so, a quiet hybrid DCT will never live up to the F50's recipe. I doubt that anything could.

 

You cannot compare a track car with a road car, one which has to abide by today's engine regulations for that matter. The fact of the matter remains that the F80 is a better/quicker machine than the amazing LaFerrari, as it should being 11 years newer. Let us compare apple to apples here, not to oranges.

Worst idea ever for a supercar.

 

Why, pray tell?

I nearly always prefer coupes for their rigidity. Hardly a concern in the F50, that car is plenty stiff. The mounting on the solid roof is also extremely secure and no doubt does a very convincing impression of a hard top in terms of adding rigidity.

And with the roof off, you can better enjoy the sound of that glorious engine. It adds to the experience. Which is kind of the point...

 

As you said yourself, rigidity and weight (even with carbon tubs there is a penalty) and a personal experience of mine. Years ago I flipped a car and it rolled over a rock, denting the roof just above my head. In an open top car the rock would have hit my skull and probably I wouldn't be here to have this discussion with you...

Open top cars are nice when driving slowly (boulevard cruisers), not ideal as sports cars.

 

Im not so sure about that. Other late model sports cars also have to comply with todays sound regs and many are far more audible with a decent engine note.
Shmee being the gentleman that he is, is obviously being very careful not to say anything which could blow back on him - says F80 sounds similar to 296 without admitting its a lot quieter, which it is. Ive heard 296 on track and you can definitely hear it unlike F80 which only produces the muted sound of rushing air (much like a muffled dyson). The fact 296 is audible along with gt4rs,gt3rs,road going 911s and Lambos etc, all which still produce an attractive sound indicates Ferrari no longer cares about the sound coming from its cars.
You also mentioned earlier how F80 would be more emotional than Laf but other than being a bit faster i cant see how or where it could possibly be more emotional? I also haven’t heard anyone arguing against F80 being faster? You keep bringing this point up? I don’t believe this is all that important nowadays. So where it is better again? Just speed?

 

With the caveat of not having driven them, I would think that the F80 is more responsive than the already fantastic LaFerrari. It is not just about the numbers (which are important), but the immediacy of responses to the inputs. Sound is nice, but it is a byproduct of the internal combustion in all honesty. It has nothing to do with the actual art of driving.

 

The average convertible, sure, the lack of rigidity is easy to discern and detracts from the experience. An F50? I'd be very surprised if you found it lacking.

As for rollover risk, very glad you're ok. Won't stop me from driving fast in open top cars. But I can understand why you'd feel differently.

 

I think you are clutching at straws here.

And the sound is not “nice” at all unless of course you favor the sound of a vacuum cleaner over a 9000 rpm V12 at full noise?
The little sound being emitted is its worst attribute actually although there are a few other areas of concern jockeying for Ist position.

 

Sound is a major part of emotion (1/3 maybe?). If it wasn’t, electric super cars would be selling en masse. Looks are another. LAF is better looking and sounds much better. Doesn’t matter how dynamically good the F80 is, it can’t be better or more emotional than LAF based on losing those two points, badly.

 

Absolutely! Sound is a major part of the “emotional” equation, inside and outside the car!

 

Why I can’t bear the thought of selling my titanium exhaust (Ryft) F12. That early 2000s F1 style scream makes my day.

https://www.instagram.com/s/aGlnaGxpZ2h0OjE3OTc5MTkwMTMwMzkxMDE2?story_media_id=2675180116573621824&igsh=dmM5bDJraHh0OW15

 

Hard to beat!

 

This might be the only reason I'd fork out for the VS 296.

Highly doubt that happens considering the F80 has a myriad of electric motors and a V6 TT.

Personally, the thought of a Pista or a Speciale seems more appealing than whatever the VS will likely be.

 

all of this is making a standard 296 look significantly more appealing. If the 296VS is muted and the non-VS isn't...score 296 non-VS. The 296 is RWD while the f80 (and SF90) are all wheel drive. Which would you rather have?

 

I'd have to drive the SF90 and F80. Haven't had the chance to drive the SF90, and doubt I'll ever get to drive an F80.

Before my Lusso, the only AWD car I'd ever owned was a gen one R8. It had a great engine and a gated manual. But I never warmed to the car because of the AWD. Sure, it pulled out of corners, but the torque steer and understeer really ruined the experience for me. I vowed to never buy another AWD car.

Then I got my Lusso. I have three little girls. Once my second finished pre-school, I needed a back seat for the school run. And I decided it was worth breaking my vow for a car with a Ferrari V12 and two extra seats.

And I adore the Lusso. The AWD is completely unobtrusive, to the point where I'm not sure it's actually doing much, at least is Sport or CT-Off mode (where I do all my driving). No discernable torque steer and it's very easy to use the throttle to adjust the attitude of the car mid-corner.

Given the choice, I'll always pick RWD. Save the weight, keep the front tires unencumbered. But I will no longer dismiss AWD out of hand. If anyone can make it work, apparently it's Ferrari.

 

The only reason the F80 will sound muted is because of regulations and not because of it's engine. Strip away some mufflers and it will scream like nothing else. I believe Euro6 has very strict rules limiting the amount of DB a new car can put out. It will decrease year after year. Gone are the days of OEM screaming engines without resulting to a Novitec or similar companies (until those will be banned as well of course!)

 

You mean like the Enzo or the LaFerrari?

How I look at it- the recipe changes with the times.

When the Enzo debuted people said it was ugly, and what happened to the stick shift.

The F40 had criticism as did the 288.

Even the LaFerrari had criticism, but at that time, it seems like the market was really ready for it. And when you think about direct racing tech transfer, it might be the one where the ICE has the least amount of it.

The F50 was a street legal 333SP, a car that was not planned, but did happen, and took the V12 from the F1 car (I forget the exact code now). F80 is a kind of street legal formulation of the 499P, thats kind of how I see it.

Back to 296, if it were me, Id make the special edition without the hybrid, the car is already crazy fast, any faster and its stepping into the SF90 camp. How about more of a purist type appeal with this one. Time will tell us.

 

I do think the Enzo and LaFerrari dropped (manual) and added (hybridization) ingredients versus the F50's near-perfect recipe. Others will say the opposite, that those changes improved the recipe, and I find that perspective completely reasonable. Different people will pick a different favorite among them, but few would deny that all are special.

Will some people feel that way about a quiet, hybrid, turbo V6? Yes, probably. I'm skeptical that it will ever receive the same affection, however.

As for the racing credentials of this powertrain, I never found them particularly compelling. This format exists because it was mandated by the FIA and encouraged by the AOC in the interest of efficiency, not performance. The manufacturers supported the move because they thought (correctly) that they'd be forced to make their cars more efficient, and that having these powertrains on track would help them sell the format. Which we're seeing play out now.

This is to take nothing away from the frankly miraculous engineering achievements within the context of this framework. And perhaps, even without the efficiency mandates, they would have landed with a similar format. I'm honestly not sure what engineers would have come up without the constraints on fuel and fuel flow. (Though I'm certain those little 1.6L V6s in the F1 cars would be revving to the moon.) But the way it came about will always leave me a bit cynical about the format's credentials.

 

Kindly advise on which Ferraris you own or have owned and which models you have driven.

 

Funny I never experienced any understeer or torque steer in my AMG’s that were ‘fourmatic’ , I fact they were great handling at both low and high speed albeit they wore the front tyres disproportionately.

 

Silence is a strong reply.

 

Thank you for the excellent commentary.

I would just observe that the F80 seems to have the most direct racing technology transfer of their supercars.

Whether or not we like the racing formula or its reasons for being is another discussion.

Again, if it were me, I'd have used the V6 as the basis of a new NA V12....

 

Well said and well summarized as always. That point deserves real weight and acknowledgement.

 

Absolutely agree, Enzo was a racer that wanted to bring race tech to road cars. In that respect they are continuing the tradition