Manual lovers - how do you like the Ferrari DCTs?

If I am not mistaken, BMW has abandoned DTCs and has returned to hydraulic torque converter transmissions for their cars with paddle shifters.

The difference from the old slushboxes is that the modern ones also have conventional clutch plates which as electronically controlled during the shift process and clamp fully.

 

The last torque converters I tried (other than my wife's big sedans) were the FType R (ZF) and the DB11 (also ZF?). They were pretty good, and certainly infinitely better than the automatics of my youth. But they still felt sluggish compared to a DCT.

In fairness, those are probably outdated compared to what BMW is using now. (Then again, I don't hold BMW in quite the same regard I once did.)

 

I hear you TF! You'll note I said I would always choose a manual for a street car.

DCTs are great fun on track. Of course, manuals can be a blast too, particularly if it's a proper racing gearbox with straight cut gears and dog rings so you can left foot break and get those lightning quick upshifts that rival a DCT.

As for the current cars, the engines today - especially the V12s - are pretty intoxicating. Way more power than needed, but I love the sensory overload.

But yeah, I also love the back catalog. The old saying is true: it really is more fun to drive a slow car fast than a fast car slow.

 

A lot of posters saying manuals need to be under 500hp

This is because most high HP cars with DCT's have 7+ gears and are therefore very short geared.

A car can have high HP and be a manual, as long as the gearing is long enough

 

This was such an unexpected question it has taken me that long to think about it. I wish I could drive them back to back.

Everyone has a different perfect balance of involvement vs convenience, and partly that's what this comes down to. The 430 has go-kart steering, mid engine agility and that lovely spring loaded manual gearshift. You feel very much part of the car, like a cog in this machine (I also love the clear engine cover).

The 812 is a mighty V12, and while I love the 430 engine, the 812 is in another league for engine. On fast curves, it's also super responsive, involving, almost dainty. But it lacks the steering feel of the 430, is more clinical at low speeds, and it's just never, ever as satisfying pulling a carbon fibre paddle as it is changing gear on a metal gate.

I'd take an 812 for a car to drive frequently, it's also much better as a tourer and in cities. But for a blast through the Alps on a sunny summer day...gated 430 Spider every time.

 

DCT can be used like a manual sequential gearbox (with automated clutch) - in manual mode, the only automatic decisions are to protect the system (e.g. deny downshift when inappropriate, or automatically downshift if rev are too low) so that when operated properly, it's really like a manual gearbox (except for the automated clutch). And there is never the slip that could be experienced with an automatic gearbox (although these slips are less common with modern automatic gearboxes), the gearbox is always locked in a gear except during a (very fast) switch.

 

Youve said multiple times that a DCT is like a sequential gearbox. Thats just completely and utterly wrong. You also talk a about a "clutch" as singular, there are two.
A dual-shaft double wet/dry clutch gearbox doesnt resemble a sequential gearbox, not even remotely. I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the terminology.
Perhaps this is overly pedantic but for someone who used to work with these, thats a fundamental difference.

 

I would argue with that, a dual clutch gearbox is typically a dual sequential gearbox, one for odd gears and one for even gears. The dual clutch allows to switch between the two, and each set (odd and even) with its clutch acts like a sequential gearbox (although it's hidden by the electronics, on each part it's only possible to shift between consecutive gears, e.g. from 1 to 3 or 2 to 4 - the box does not go through neutral between gears). I don't think there is something like a dual clutch gearbox based on two H=pattern boxes (although it could be possible).