I think people are tired of/no longer want a completely pushbutton/paddle controlled/all automatic exotic. I have actually been looking at Vipers SPECIFICALLY because they are damned near all manual everything.
Current situation in secondary market is a key indicator of what's to come. Already a glut, from overproduction. And, arguably, lack of emotional connection buyers are having w/newer models. 204 (two hundred four) 488 GTB/Spiders for sale. 201 (two hundred one) SF90's for sale. 183 (one hundred eighty-three) 296 GTB Coupes for sale. 181 (one hundred eighty-one) Romas for sale. 178 (one hundred seventy-eight) F8 Coupes for sale. 115 (one hundred fifteen) PF/PF M's for sale. 100 (one hundred) 812 GTS's for sale. That's 1,162 newer-model Ferraris for sale now in US. UNPRECEDENTED. Less a matter of people able to AFFORD those 8000 new cars, more a matter of people WANTING those 8000 new cars.
That's exactly the "lack of emotional connection" I'm referring to. Mustn't underestimate it's importance.
Don't forget you can't get these serviced just anywhere, plus the tax costs, plates, insurance, all those things add up to even the 'well-to-do common man' has a hard time justifying one. 15 years ago a guy that made 75K a year could afford one, today that is no longer true, even a normal guy making 100-125K cannot truly afford it. Here, if I get one and it needs service, it has to be trailered 500 miles away, and 500 miles back.
Wasn’t long ago that try hards in another sub forum cried foul with the news that the 488 and F8 and Pista sounded terrible and didn’t bring enough of the emotional connection for the price.
So, what's your point? You think someone who can afford to buy a new 296 is going to buy a used Roma instead because "its a good deal"? Sorry, these world wide numbers are so small they are insignificant.
And yet only around 40 Pista for sale despite production quantities that dwarf many of the models in your list. Something about the Pista seems to have captured the hearts of owners.
Today’s situation is extremely simple to explain and has very little to do with the cars being unappealing in my view. Interest rates have ended the era of cheap money and the speculators have gone. This means two things. Ferrari are now producing too many and the price is too high. Both of these they will end up correcting at some point (whether they like it or not). One is related to the other and if they want more of one they will have to accept less of the other - they get to decide. Unsurprisingly, the market now looks very similar, if not identical, to pre-financial crisis. It is only exacerbated by the additional speculator-driven production volume of recent years. It has very little to do with the cars IMO. This likely settles down at lower volumes more than lower price I believe. But maybe they will see it differently.
Ferrari sales have been growing in the US for years. Of course the number for sale used is UNPRECEDENTED. Something like 3,000 per year for the last 8 years (since 488 which is the earliest model you listed) is about 24,000 cars. And you think circa 1,100 for sale of a luxury product sold to people who get bored easily is worthy of note? I’m also curious as to why you spelled out the numbers? Just struck me as an odd thing to do. You have a narrative, like others, that Ferrari are doomed (overstating to make a point) because they don’t build cars like you would like them to. I think this mentality has always been with Ferrari and there are many names that have posted here that do so no longer in the time I can remember on the forum. It will continue to happen but it’s not new.
“Doubt is often better than overconfidence, for it leads to inquiry, and inquiry leads to invention.” -- Hudson Maxim
Nice. Merry Christmas to you anyway ps.its nothing to do with being a know-it-all (an oxymoron anyway) just that nobody can state an absolute that applies to everybody. Lots of people like the SF90, 12 Cilindri, F80. If they do, up to them, if they don’t up to them too. It gets a bit tiring to have it rammed down your throat at every opportunity that Ferrari are terrible, F80 is ugly, 12 Cilindri is trash etc. We get it, some hate it all. Anyhow, as I said, Merry Christmas to you.
Sorry, "worldwide" is not the same as "U.S.". The world is bigger than just the United States. PS: In Switzerland alone (super small country) there are currently 1,400 mostly newer used Ferraris for sale. Marcel Massini
If you're implying I'm one of said "some," you're wrong. As stated previously, I love pre-IPO Ferraris built under LDM's careful watch, as they looked beautiful, sounded beautiful, weren't ruined w/electronics/haptics/GPF's, and were marketed under Ferrari's previous long-held model of selling/producing "one less" than demand, to protect the brand/values, preserve exclusivity, etc. Selling to classes entirely different than selling to masses. Post-IPO requires selling to masses to prop up stock value and please shareholders. What pleases shareholders is, by and large, different than what pleases long-term Ferrari enthusiasts, of which I am most definitely one.
The title of this thread is: "This is a sad day for Ferrari." That's a hint of what the content will be. Nobody forced you to read it, or participate in it. If you find it so offensive, suggest you consider moving on to others that you find to be more comfortable.
Shareholders: made tidy profit off those 1,400 "units." Owners/resellers: not! Doesn't matter how much money one has, NOBODY enjoys losing money. Many owners now say: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Which means, they will no longer buy the newer models.
I have to say, the Vanquish sounds pretty angry under power. The local dealer just received their demo unit. I wish the roads weren’t so cold. Hard to give it a proper go with frozen tarmac.
I drove the 12 cillindre the other day!....after an F12 and 3 812s I have never been so disappointed. The haptics even Aston got rid of.....but the worst was at full chat it sounded utterly muffled. No soul what so ever. The looks I will not coment on...thats in the eye of the beholder. All this after aston launched the new vantage and vanquish that sound and look awesome...!...
???? I grew up in a time where car interest rates were between 8.9% and up to 20%, today it's a bargain.
Wow thats a disappointment to hear. The haptics most find frustrating to use The trend to more displays is also a strp in the wrong direction. Easy to use is now becoming a thing of the past. Lets pet some software engineer eho has no common sense design the interrace ehile sitting at a computer tapping away in his or her keynoard. The mugfled noise is simply a result of the far left progressive desire to over regulate. Just like the ugly Airbag warning tags ehich are now seen into the cars visors! And then the small print warning screen telling you that warching the screens is hazardous and please aknowledge that you have read this screen by pressing in a button ot the close tab! How about the handling? how was the new chassis? How about driving charateristics? You drove a regular 813. The 12C has the same engine as the Competizione. ( I own an F8 which has the same engine as the Pista. Back in the day I drove a 488 and it was noticeably less sharp in terms of handling and acceleration)
Used but never driven! (Reminds me of a Supermodel who married a billionaire who went shopping every weekend buying up all the most expensive shoes, dresses and handbags. They had to build another house to store all of these expensive goodies. After a few years , she had no clue about what she owned. She was still gorgeous. )
UK reviewer Jethro Bovington did a nice review of the 12 Cilindri He found her to be a step forward from the 812 Superfast. Watch his video in Emglish
CAR Nice intelligent review and well seasoned driver too. Faster than the 812 at Fiorano and a little shy of the 296 GTB.
Ferrari pushes the boundaries. When you do that sometimes you get it right and sometimes you get it wrong. When they get “wrong”, it’s usually not all bad.... but when they “ nail it “, get it sooo right, they drag the whole industry up for the ride. I saw the Cilindri at the Ferrari challenge event in Sonoma, it is a spectacle... not my taste but an awesome piece of modern automotive art. A truly Sad day is if Ferrari stops pushing the boundaries and stops taking the risks
I have owned both 812 and 812 GTS , to me this engine sound is more “ melodic “ and better refined than 812/GTS. I love this 12c , and I do love that now the maximum rpm is 9500!! New Aston V to me sounds like a kitchen mixer.
