456 vs 612 vs FF

I think you have summed it up perfectly other than to say that IMHO none of them is "sexy". I have never driven any of them, but my choice would be the 612 without any hesitation.

 

I lusted for an FF, but then saw the maintenance video at the Hollywood Mechanic:

$100K after 10 years for latest V12s (not just FF). I bought a 575M.

 

Sexy is subjective. I think the 456 is a very attractive car...more so than many other 2 seat Ferrari's.

Reliably I agree, would give to 612.

The 456 though when properly sorted is fairly good...its just uphill battle with the age/condition of many cars.

The FF is a whole other level of everything and a very impressive car. A PTO addressed car is a great buy, assuming the DCT remains intact.

 

OK I hold my earlier thoughts. That that’s a very eye-opening video.

A 456 is much more reliable than a FF. That said, I do wish we had someone with his level of obsession focused on the 456!

 

These DCT issues are a joke and keep putting me off any sort of car using them. You'd think the issues related to the poor engineering of F1 gearboxes would have been solved with a DCT gearbox yet because minor components fail and because they require taking half the car apart to replace them they are the headachest of headaches never ever seen before on any other type of transmission. That is German engineering in its prime : overkill engineering with zero practical approach. It's great when it works but when it doesn't you'd wish you had bought a bicycle.

Anyway, for me it would have to be a 456. It is the only elegant car of the three, looks good from most angles and can be had with a manual transmission.

 

I’m gonna say 612 is the best compromise in terms of ease of living with and maintaining, and still having the performance to light your pants on fire when you want to shift. The 612 is a slightly stretched 599 remember, and really does handle well when you’re on it. Over here, 456 and 612 pricing are basically overlapping, and I feel that you’re getting a better sorted and more capable car with a 612. In terms of looks, I like them both, and think they are both looking better with every year that passes.
The FF is unquestionably on another level in terms of performance, and arguably in terms of practicality too. In terms of the potential to ruin your finances, the FF is the riskiest proposition, but then again you could get lucky (he who dares…). The FF is possibly at a more awkward part of its history in how it looks. Some will love it, others will hate it. I love the hatchback boot, but sometimes I think the front looks silly and/or awkward. Perhaps time will help it grow into its looks.

On the PTU, I think if you wanted to, it wouldn’t be that hard to remove it and code it out. I don’t believe anyone has done this yet, and arguably it would ruin one of the defining features of the car. Still be curious to try!

 

Talking about it strictly from an ease of ownership review, you are probably right that it goes 612 > FF > 456

Lots of people talk about the difference in servicing costs and the fact is if you're regularly using your Ferrari, getting a bill that's "just a service" is unusual once they're of a certain age. This isn't even a Ferrari thing - Boxsters and BMWs do it too when they're 20+ years old.

The big question with the FF for me is if when the PTU is repaired by somebody like SS Autotech, does it really fix the problem - and permanently? If so - that makes them quite tempting - but with the modern cars all the parts prices are going to be high. They're available, but expensive.

Case in point - set of full discs and pads for my 550 was £1500 fitted at the main dealer. I can't get one disc for the 430 or F12 for that.

Availability is the biggest issue I've had with the 550, a huge number of pieces are now unavailable. Some big, some small. I've had a nightmare time with my power steering which will be detailed in a video, we're making progress but not quite there yet.

 

It seems to me that parts availbility has always been a problem with low production volume cars, even Ferraris where owners are probably always willing to pay whatever is needed to keep their cars in working order, and it will be interesting to see if the higher production numbers of the more modern Ferraris such as the FF, F12 and 812 will turn the trend, but I guess not as the company policy is about maximising profits in every possible way, and as the cars become more complex and get more dramatically expensive to fix for issues that did not even exist in the past, I see no future for DCT cars unless someone fixes their flaws for good - from what I have gathered the bearing that fails inside is caused by lifting off the throttle at high rpm after a full load acceleration rather than upshifting. Considering the massive performance of those cars and how difficult it must be to use them to the fullest on the road with unreasonably low speed limits, it is not hard to imagine that the average owner may put his DCT gearbox through this sort of treatment on a regular basis on the weekend drive, and there seems to be no fix other than just replacing the bearing, which does not fix the flawed design.

Porsches have been afflicted with IMS issues which have been fixed successfully by third parties by using an open flange bearing that is continually lubricated with engine oil, rather than the original sealed bearing. Who will be the first to attempt something similar with the DCT gearbox, assuming this is even doable?

If I could afford a full DCT gearbox replacement every 5 years, I might have purchased an F12 long ago already, but as an engineer focused on long term reliability I find the issues observed simply unacceptable, particularly on so called "exotic" car, and history has always judged severely overly complex cars.

 

I’ve never had much issue with sourcing parts for my 456. It’s slightly easier than my 575 and MUCH easier than my TR. as bizarre as it may sound, it’s actually easier to source factory new or used parts more than even my BMWs or humble Honda prelude.

 

Almost any older cars, I reckon, unless you are very lucky. I can't remember a time in more than two decades of ownership when my Bentley has had "just a service".

That was one consideration, albeit admittedly a minor one, when I decided to sell my 550 - a combination of complexity and bespoke parts made in small numbers, never to be made again once stocks have run dry. And while I appreciate that a lot of things can be 3D printed these days (though maybe of dubious quality?), I suspect that there is an equal number that cannot. I had visions of a future in which my car was off the road for long periods waiting for parts to be obtained from Italy / sourced from eslewhere / found secondhand / re-manufactured (probably rather expensively), or just plain NLA full stop.

My E-type, on the other hand, holds no such fears for me. Apart from being a lot less complex than a newer car, there is a thriving re-manufacturing trade and a huge second-hand resource, because it shared so many parts with other Jaguars (and even non-Jaguars) of the period. Much the same goes for my Bentley.

 

“I had visions of a future in which my car was off the road for long periods waiting for parts to be obtained from Italy / sourced from eslewhere / found secondhand / re-manufactured (probably rather expensively), or just plain NLA full stop.”

I think about this too and wonder if there any actual cases of 550/456 cars unable to get back on the road due to NLA part(s) and what those part(s) may be, or could be, in the near future.

Makes me shudder.

 

I owned all 3 for over 15 years. FF is by far the “best” and its the one i still own. 612oto is a great car by i cant stand the pre dct f1s. For 90 percent of the driving i do the old f1s are simply annoying. The 456 mgta was fun and sort of comfortable but i just dont see why one wld not opt for a 355. An oto in stick wld be cool.

The sound an FF makes for current prices is a no brainer especially now that dct and ptu can be addressed aftermarket. Just need to factor those into purchase price like one does when buying an L322 that might need timing chains and coolant pipes done. Put an novitec or kline on the FF and you are in the top 10 sounding cars of all time.

i put 3k miles on my 456, 8k on oto since 2009 and 40k on ff since new 2012.

No ferrari is headache free and no ferrari is cheap. Pick your poisons.

 

And then there is this

 

Honestly that’s the best angle !

 

At my Kid's school 2 years ago.... was a nice surprise as we didn't plan it...

The FF looks huge when parked next to it with my 456
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Correct me if I'm wrong but from all the data I have gathered on the topic the issue is not addressed. What aftermarket people do is to rebuild the DCT to stock spec without fixing the core of the issue which is a design fault.

 

Every ferrari has flaws and needs repeat attention. If you are going to drive the car 100k miles then maybe its a concern but if ur gonna put 7k miles a year on it who cares?

 

I would disagree. Nothing that dramatic in terms of costs on even historically notorious high upkeep cars like the testarossa family

 

Well, owners with a "head in the sand" strategy can only encourage manufacturers to keep making products of lesser quality. I am sure that Ferrari have still been working really hard at improving their products in the last 30 decades and it is a bit ironic that a major mechanical component such as the gearbox is entirely outsourced.

 

Check out your 550's steering box. Ferrari buys lots of components, like ECUs, brakes, etc.

 

Yes obviously but that's not my point, which is that even a manufacturer like Ferrari which has always taken pride out of making themselves major mechanical components such as the engine are now outsourcing a major component as identity-defining as the gearbox. This places all the cars using that same DCT gearbox in the same kleenex car category. How long until the engine comes next.
I love how differently the gearboxes feel on all of my cars. They are part of the identity of the car, very much unlike flappy paddles especially when they operate the same gearbox.

 

Timmo- How about you 550 guys knock it off with the flappy paddles crap? Gets really old and shows small mindedness.