1963 250 GT/E #4001

sure that this is a 1963 and not a 1962 car? the 1963 had fog lights between the grill and the turn signals.
here I not even can see the fog lights, they should be behind the grill left and right.
also the rings from the headlights are from a 1962 model

 

4001 (Pf/68307) is a 2nd series car completed in November 1962.

First 3rd series car was 4093 (Pf/68351) completed in January 1963.

 

4001 GT (S2) was completed 24 November 1962.
4093 GT (S3) was completed 3 January 1963.

Marcel Massini

 

The information is wrong.
I have zero to do with 4001 GT, have never owned, or brokered or bought or sold it.
It was sold ten years ago, 14 August 2015, by Bonhams at Quail, Carmel Valley, CA/USA, to the U.S. East Coast.
See pix I took back then.

4001 GT was originally Blu Sera 20264 with Natural leather VM 3309.
Completed 24 November 1962.
Originally invoiced to FBA Franco-Brittanic Autos Ltd. in Paris 7 December 1962 but then actually delivered to Chinetti Motors in NY/NY, USA, on 31 January 1963.

Marcel Massini

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so it is a 1962 and not 1963 as Andrew Clark is writing in the thread title.
sad to see that even in this excellent ferrari chat forum some post wrong things

 

Depends how you see it. Usually a car built in second half of 1962 would be though to belong to model year 1963, but Ferrari did not use model years unless mandated to do so, and even in VIN era (1981 onwards) door tag and VIN code would half of the time indicate different years for the reason already mentioned. Many people will also determine model year by the date of first registeration.

 

but for me it is a 1962 model, not 1963

 

For me it is a late 2nd series, built in 1962 but really does not have a model year. Have bigger problem with the GT-suffix that wasn't really used after serial number 2399GT, than calling it a 1963, but really don't care that much.

 

On the engine, the GT is used INCLUDING 2401GT

 

One may also consult the build sheets........ clearly with the suffix "GT"........ even as high as S/N 5791 GT (a 250 GT/L) the suffix GT was used.

Marcel Massini
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Romano, as Mr. Clark posted before me, the year models of cars in the US often are or used to be indicated in their titles (= proof of ownership) by the year they were first registered, not when they were constructed.

For example, although last Daytonas were made in 1973, there are some US market cars that are known to have 1974, 1975 or perhaps even 1976 as a model year because they remained unsold, new cars and/or were not registered first time until years later.

Another example, I have seen or worked on several US market Daytonas that may have a 1971 build date, but weren’t sold & registered until 1972 or built in 1972 but not sold & registered until 1973 and in almost all cases their registration & title shows them to be a year model when they were first sold & registered.

 

Looks like the suffix has unfortunately fallen off from both cross member and engine.

 

may be??? but for me it is not important the date of first registration somewhere in the world, it is when the car finished in the factory. and this car here with the VIN 4001 is a 1962 model as marcel also stated.

when a car is sold for example in 1970 for the first time and not just registered but get registered in 1980 first time, what model year you call this car then?

for example: I still have a brand new motorcycle in the original crate ( a 2 stroke of course ) from 1989 . so never registered and can not register anymore because of the emissions regulations. so it is then when I follow your arguments a brand new model, even it is a 1989 model? and because of not registered yet it would be a model from ???

 

Romano, please read my comment again.
It simply relates to what the OP (Mr. Clark) and I were saying how the US federal and its various State governments interpreted the model year designation back 50+ years ago.
It appears that back then the government offices didn't care which year the car was made, but rather when it was first sold & registered as a new car and that's why a lot of people here in the US refer to their cars year model being what they see in the title and/or registration forms.
This is NOT my "argument" or opinion. It's just the way they used to do things around here in the US.
Of course all that changed when manufacturers around the world started using the "long" (14 or 17 digit ?) VIN's, which might automatically include coded date when and/or the place where each car is finished by their respective manufacturer.

 

thank you very much for this statement what I understand very well.
but there is still a difference between "government interpretation" and "enthusiast interpretation"

 

I own 3447. My car was titled 64. When I purchased it I knew the car was a 1962 series II…so I took the time to have the title changed to represent 1962….no small feat…but completed, two reason why I did this…one was because in Indiana we can run circa year license plates and I like the 1962 plate better then the 64…further, I didn’t want to deal with “experts” telling me my car is a series II 62 car and having to explain…With that said, anybody who has serious interest and knowledge in these cars, knows what the serial numbers represent. nothing to lose sleep over…. All is good

 

Ferrari considers a car built in Dec 1970 as a 1970 model.

 

Ferrari considered cars built in spring 1968 to be 1967 models

 

I fully agree and understand.

I apologize for veering off 250GTE topic, but I refer Daytonas in variety of ways that may not make obvious sense to someone else.

For example, if or whenever I’m out in public with one or have someone visiting my shop, I often get questions like what “What year is this ?” or if I have more than one in the shop “What year are these ?” or “When was this or these made ?” I often explain that they were produced between 1969 & 1973, but unlike most vintage production cars, with few detail exceptions every year model looks pretty much the same to an average enthusiast or random person.

In general, I look at Daytonas in following fashion: Early -, mid - or late production, Plexi or pop-up headlights, “Euro” or US market, LHD or RHD, etc, but the specific model year isn’t that important as they can be impossible to differentiate without a chassis number and even that can be difficult unless you have its built sheet or similar documentation, especially when after 50+ years, many of the cars have been modified*, rebuilt/repaired/restored, some multiple times and often to the whims of owners or inexperience of those doing the work.

I would say over 90% of enthusiasts/owners of any kind of vintage cars do not care for the accuracy of such minutiae like the date when they were built or what color they were originally, etc.

*Many Daytonas had their plexi nose converted (updated ?) to pop-up lights back in the day to them appearance of later model or have their US market lighting or smog equipment eliminated, etc …

 

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