V12 Sound

A big reset in EU politics is needed to get a reversion on sound emissions regulations. That is what is now choking the sound. It is not the manufacturers or the amount of cylinders. Also, manufacturers that make <1000 units do not have these sound regulations. Also, just in case someone asks why Valkyrie or GMA cars are loud, they are made by legally separate standalone companies). There are written and approved decibel standards now. Yes, 78 decibels. And going down more after that. Unless someone convinces the EU regulatory body, the world of new cars registered in the EU will get quieter and quieter.

If change is wanted, people need to apply pressure to the regulators, not the manufacturers.

 

You're correct if you're speaking to our friends in Europe. There is nothing Ferrari can do for EU-bound cars unless regulators relax these limits.

But for those of us in other markets not subject to such stringent caps, I don't believe we need a change in regulations. We need the manufacturers to adhere to limits that apply in our market rather than comply uniformly to the lowest common denominator.

 

For reference, I measured my TdF with a factory OEM Sport Exhaust using an iPhone 13 Pro with a dB meter app. At 1 car length back, I measured a peak 119 decibels at the highest rev rpm I could get to quickly. Probably around 8000 rpm peak. When I opened all the valves (via controller), it was 123 decibels. Using the 119 db, the 41 db difference from 78 decibers is literally 16x louder. Not that someone is going to be driving around all the time at 8K rpm. That's the level of difference going from a 2016 F12 TdF to a 2026 any EU car. This is part of what @day355 mentions as part of the emotion that a driver experiences.

 

You are right.

I wonder if there is a technical and/or manufacturing reason for why its difficult to implement. I would pay for the "great sound" option.

 

May 2024 i bought a new RAM 1500 Classic, one of the last.
They do not officially offer the car in the EU, there are 2 or 3 companies which import these cars and do the modifications to EU Standard (fog light, ....)
Exhaust ist not modified.

The original exhaust (US Standard) is without V8 sound, so the US cars also have a problem with getting a proper exhaust sound from the factory.
What are the regulations for new US cars in the USA, i think nearly EU regulations ?

Daniel

1st thing i did, i changed to an inox cat back exhaust system with much better V8 sound.

 

It could be, though it doesn't seem like it should be too difficult. Other manufacturers do it.

And like you say, they could offer it in the markets where it's legal as an expensive optional upgrade. "Sport Exhaust". Most of us would pay for it.

 

My understanding is that noise limits are set by the states. The EPA has the authority to regulate it, but has deferred to the states (I'm not sure if that's de facto or official delegation).

The lowest common denominator state is always California. The limit there is 95db, which I don't believe has changed in my lifetime. This is already multiples louder than the EU limits.

My understanding is that the testing is also performed at "normal" revs, making it much more lax. Manufacturers sell cars that go well past 95db (like @gzachary's TDF). They're within the limits at normal revs, but not once the revs are up and the valves open. It may be technically illegal to drive these cars in such a way that produces these volumes. But these cars are still homologated and can pass the emissions tests.

I'm not sure why your Ram was so quiet, but I don't believe it was because our noise limits are anything like those in the EU.

 

Found these datas for regulations here in the EU/Germany

We all know, noise emission is limited with the year of homogolation and sort of vehicle.

These are the regulated emissions for the measurement values of a driving car
1. group ≦ 120 kW / 1.000 kg : > 90 % of cars : 72 dB
2. group 120kW ≤ 160 kW / 1.000 kg : sport, compact cars : 73 dB
3. group > 160 kW / 1.000 kg : fast middle and luxury cars : 75 dB
4. group > 200 kW / 1.000 kg : fast sports cars : 75 dB
Measurement with an accelerating car, measurement point at a position the car is on speed 50 Km/h.

It's possible that 2024 the values got lower.


These are the measurement methods for the emission for standing car, noise at xxxx rpm, not regulated
max rpm < 5000 rpm = measurement at 75% of max rpm
max rpm 5000 rpm - 7500 rpm = measurement at 3750 rpm
max rpm > 7500 rpm = measurement at 50% of max rpm

So in the german documents (i think all EU documents), there are generally 2 db values
db value for driving car (regulated by state)
db value standing car (not regulated by state)

The 812 SF has
72 db in driving condition (which is regulated and limited)
111 db at 4250 rpm in standing condition (which is not regulated)

My 2023 RAM 5.7 V8
75 db in driving condition
85 db at 3750 rpm in standing condition
so the V8 sound does not exist like it should.
The RAM 1500 classic (Gen 4) wasn't imported regular to the EU/Germany the last years.
All RAM in Germany has an single homologation to get the car through all the official regulations (light height adjustment, crash zone, ...), so exhaust was stock US

Daniel

 

"Sport Exhaust" was literally the name of the option on the TdF option list and personalization plate in the back trunk. I am not sure if that means it was lighter or louder or both.

 

I found the same structuring of kw / kg but slightly higher sound levels. For section 4, it allowed 78 decibels effective with 2026 EU registrations. I am guessing that means consumer car registrations.
78 or 75 dB is a long way from 95 db regardless. From 95 to 75 is 1/4th the loudness.

 

So what’s the solution of this sound level problem?
Instead of developing new cars with the glorious V12 producing the last non-GPF V12 (812 Superfast) until ICE is forbidden?

 

1. We should all lobby our representatives
2. Ferrari should offer different exhausts in markets with less stringent regulations
3. Ferrari should allow for the installation of aftermarket exhausts manufactured by reputable companies without voiding warranties.

Eventually, we reach an unhappy ending as the ICE is forced into extinction. In the meantime, everyone in our circles should do what we can to maximize and prolong our enjoyment of the cars we love.

 

This is interesting. How do you suggest the 812’s situation relates to the 12C? It seems like this suggests the 812 was also limited to 72db in a ‘regulated’ driving condition but was 111db in an ‘unregulated’ standing condition. Since most don’t really care about the volume standing and the volume driving is much more important, has the 812 already been limited to the same level as the 12C for this measure? Seems a bit confusing.

I must admit, I was surprised to find the interior sound on the 12C spider press reviews was very similar to the sound in 812 reviews.

 

By the way something that I noticed regarding the sound:
As some other people who drove the car noted and as confirmed by most of rhe reviews, once the car is driving down the road and preferably at high revs it sounds pretty good, especially inside the cabin etc.
The scenario where most people agree that it sounds muted a bit is when it's stationary and people rev the car to hear the "Ferrari V12 Sound" ... I am now convinced that this is just more aggressive soft limiters that dont allow the car to rev very high when stationary and therefore block the car from delivering the full sound that people expect. This is true for many cars.

 

The measurement method between driving and standing is the big difference.

Standing :
microphones left and right 45° and 0,5 meter from exhaust.
Throttle to (in case of 812 SF) 4250 rpm, hold and abrupt loose of the pedal.
At 4250 the flaps are open, so the 111 db come off.


Driving condition is much more complex.
At this method the car is in the condition where the flaps are closed, so they get the 72 db.

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They want to get down the noise emissions in the city, so it's important that cars a quite from 10-60 km/h

We have 2 Abarth 595 SS, a 2020 and a 21, both with an genuine Akrapovic exhaust.
With sport mode, the exhaust flap opens.
When starting to drive, the flap closes between about 10-60 Km/h.
With standing car or more than 60, the flap is always open.

Daniel

 

Can 't agree with that. Why would any company have to cover items it has not manufactured?

Ferraris don't have soft limiters (which is a misnomer, they should be called stationary limiters - a soft limiter is a different thing).

 

I just drove the car yesterday and can say that yes the car is a lot quieter than the 812. From start up to shifting gears and even at redline. But that doesn't mean that the 812 is a better car. The 12Cilindri is exceptional. More fun to drive than the 812 and has a bipolar character. You can drive this thing comfortably around town or let out the beast in the upper RPM's. The shorter wheelbase makes the car feel smaller and the shifting has its own unique sound as well.

 

God Bless!
“Inshallah!”

 

812 Competizione has 116 db at revs

 

According to my 12 Cilindri German vehicle registration document

Stationary noise 99db (4625rpm)
Pass-by noise 71db

 

Strange how improved sound makes the car even prettier!

 

I agree, it immediately makes the car something very special. In the end you can say Ferrari builds the best V12 engines but due to EU regulations the exhaust is the problem. But there is a very good solution with Novitec. Then you have something special with emotion again.

 

Novitec will sell a lot of exhausts for this car.

 

I already have a quote in inbox

 

This may be the very first time I modify a Ferrari. We shall see when it arrives.