What Happened with Dino Values!!!

Here we go again, AMALF1, posted the sad story on BaT, had to happen .....

 

Mnay dealers playing the game will ruin this one and nobody does the compression test

 

Why do a compression, leak down, paint thickness.....It appears that standards have decreased. A sign of the times?

Regards, Alberto

 

Simply state that this No Reserve auction is being extended in the last few hours because there is one real bidder and a couple of shills?

 

Latest BAT round:

206 has sold for $1.0085M

246 L did not sale but I have heard a couple of “rumors”. If I hear a confirmation, I will post

246 GT C/F did not sale, but…..

They market has weakened, but plenty of new market buyers that aren’t into other vintage Ferraris

Stage Left - Enter the Porsche guys walking into the Dino market.

 

Rumours.....
I sorta kinda prefer facts Shawn.
Hope you are well.

Regards, Alberto

 

IMHO, it’s definitely possible that a group of collectors, dealers, or investors are trying to manipulate the Ferrari Dino market, but it’s hard to prove definitively.
The recent $1M sales are significantly above the usual market price for a Dino and would really love to see the condition and backstory of these cars.
As we have seen in the past, when prices suddenly spike beyond historical trends, it raises suspicion of market manipulation or at least a coordinated effort to push values higher.
So why the Dino?
If there were a cartel or price manipulation at play, the Dino would be a smart target for several reasons as it was once undervalued and considered an “entry-level” but still a low production.
Regarding the Porsche 911 effect, I will disagree.
Classic air-cooled Porsche values have skyrocketed, only because of the rise of restomods like Singer. Not an issue with Ferrari, where purity is king.
Searching for one myself lately I came to the conclusion that perfect specimens are limited (not that I care for one). Many Dinos suffered from rust, overuse, or poor restorations in the past and I have seen quite a lot of them with asking prices starting at 300k.
So if a small group of collectors controls a batch of pristine, matching-numbers cars, IMHO they can set the high benchmark pricing, plus the "new era" economy of easy bitcoin noney and in many cases "cheap money" from shady transactions made classic cars a serious asset, and some investors (not just enthusiasts) will buy them purely for profit.

If a few high-profile Dinos sell for $1M, it resets expectations, making people believe that’s the new normal, which can artificially inflate prices.

So... is this a Cartel?

Again, to me, it is possible that a few major collectors or dealers are strategically bidding up Dinos on high-visibility platforms like BAT to create a perception of rising value.This tactic isn’t new—similar things have happened in the air-cooled Porsche, muscle car, and JDM markets before.
On the other hand, if two bidders with deep pockets really wanted those cars, the $1M price could just be an outlier rather than deliberate manipulation.
For us who do not have one, lets hope it’s likely just a short-term bubble or hype-driven anomaly.
For you that already have one or more, congrats, you hit the jackpot.

 

Both of the 1,000,000 sales were 206s, I believe, which are much more rare than general 246 Dinos. That being said, a rising tide lifts all boats.

I took my Dino to a show this morning and the attention was really amazing. People of all ages love the Dino..

 

Ariz, perfectly logical questions, yet, we'll never know the answers. Who owns BaT? Best of luck....

 

I paid $8000 for a 246 Dino GT. I spent $10,000 getting it running and looking nice. I drove it around Southern CA for 14 years, then sold it when it needed a restoration I couldn't afford and didn't want to do. The next guy did, and I'm happy for him.

No regrets at all because---

I'll take those 14 years over a million bucks any day.

The pity is these collector machines will never be driven the way I drove that car. When I could park it anywhere and no one cared. When it was just another old Italian car. "A big Fiat".

If its $$$$ you want, buy stocks or real estate. Some of you will understand what I just wrote. Those are the lucky ones.

 

Dropping

 

https://rmsothebys.com/auctions/s0725/lots/r0004-1970-ferrari-dino-246-gt-lseries-by-scaglietti/?&utm_source=rmsothebys.com&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=CORP25&utm_term=CORP25_Weekly_Jun23&_cldee=Dl4wd8h1Sq6w-NdUL6W3wxqqXWivgkE2-GxDlzKwgWG4wb1_8tgJqMSUTiNf1KT9&recipientid=contact-5b12e629d20ae0118df600262df07400-c06027b7e1574469b2fab2fad298f08e&esid=e85e34ea-da4d-f011-82d4-000c2971a03a

 

The problem with this is that RM doesn't post results with these Sealed Bid auctions. But a nice looking L.

 

Hearst Autos owns BAT.

https://www.hearstautos.com/

 

Hearst doesn't own all of BaT.

 

FWIW Bring A Trailer was acquired by Hearst Media acquired back in June 2020 during the COVID era. Joining the publishing giant's media holdings of Autoweek, Car and Driver and Road & Track. They bought out the original co-founders of Randy Nonnenberg and Gentry Underwood most notably. First auction was in 2014.

https://www.autoweek.com/news/industry-news/a32712976/hearst-autos-acquires-bring-a-trailer/

 

While I would agree with the direction of the 246 market, evidently these guys didn't get the memo - or are far smarter than me.

https://www.classic.com/veh/1970-ferrari-dino-246-gt-01094-peyvrbp/

I consider myself fairly astute, but that said I don't get how this very rough 246 is over the $500k mark (in asking). Yes largely a single owner since 1976 but all that and $3 gets you a ride on the subway if I'm being honest. If she is as very rough as she looks the buyer will need to pour a fortune into her. The economics aren't there after all money is spent for full restoration ($300k+) and this isn't a chairs & flares. Maybe there is perceived values by telling its story with being originally ordered by a Kuwaiti prince in Iran?

 

This isn’t a typical old Ratty Dino. It is a mainly original paint car that has documentation that is amazing, including in period letters from the factory regarding it and a bunch more. You can’t recreate originality and cars like this have a very specific market and it isn’t cheap, but you won’t find another anytime soon. It is a very cool Dino

 

The elephant in the corner of the room is the same as all classic car markets .It’s a numbers game .
Balancing numbers produced with potential buyers prepared to spend .

Bcz 246 Dinos are not that rare ( compared to say a Bugatti type 35 for example) , Ferrari made thousands AND critically the demographics of the buyers pool is constantly changing …..bluntly they are “dropping off the perch “ then like any classic mkt the vol of cars for sale exceeds buyers the market dips , floats down .

Ok there s a bit of chaff from so called “ cartel “ dealers trying to prop prices up .This is what you are seeing with the failed auction malarkey- withdrawn cars and extended bidding times etc .

A lot of similar chaff regarding matching numbers , provenance, restorations etc etc . As few players in the Dino world talking it up . That’s natural btw .

Younger guys , car guys coming through there just isn’t enough to support the current market sales .

These guys have latched onto 80 s / 90 s cars .

When a car is 60 yrs old you are expecting 70- 80 yr old guys to fight at auctions- Really ? It the other way round before they pass they are tidying up there estates and offloading liabilities for there heirs

As said it’s a numbers game .

There will always be a residual market I am not saying collapse or any other doom mongering stuff just analysing it as a investment potential.

Why not think of it like any other car hobby , you buy to enjoy it drive it , sure pour money in ( restoration etc ) …..when the time comes to sell , and be assured it will just accept you have lost money like other cars during your life .

 

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a65161978/1973-dino-246-gts-cannonball-run-winner-auction/

https://www.mecum.com/lots/1146204/1973-ferrari-dino-246-gts/?aa_id=695089-0

 

I didn't expect to see the Jack Ma Dino from the Cannonball Run (driven with Rick Cline) to be up for auction.

Anyone who doesn't know the story can go to the website [link below] that presents their journey. Considering that they were detained / redirected by the police in OH for over an hour, drove on just 4-cylnders (due to bad plugs) for an extended period and were lost in Los Angeles ... their final time in 1975 is impressive: 35 hours, 53 minutes.

Whereas the long standing Ferrari record (set 1983) of David Diem and Doug Turner in a 308 was 32 hours, 7 minutes.

https://www.cannonballdino.com/copy-of-the-story

 

Fair enough with the numbers / unchanged history, etc al. I think they're asking more than the market is allowing right now (regardless of history) but if you don't ask, you don't get.

 

Hello Peter!

I think you are right, specially on the passion, but let's face it. As you correctly state, this car was made in the 3 thou.

Yet, the only princes are the 206, the L, and then ..... the rest. C& F are a gimmick, as is the GTS.
That leaves you with less than 500 Dino. GT's are it. As designed, the GTS was a concession, yet would love to have one.

The rest, are generic Dino, in all price ranges, as too many, and people will never spend resto., costs as in the 1st 2.
They are lovely, great cars, but never the aforementioned. Just my thoughts.

Regards,
Alberto

 

I have turned 180 degrees on this issue of rising prices. In the past, I felt it was pricing out the normal enthusiast. Well, it is. But there are enthusiasts who play the violin who can't afford a Stradivarius.

What rising values do is allow owners to invest in the cars and preserve them unlike 30 years ago where they were merely "old cars" and allowed to fall apart, be abused, repaired at the lowest cost, etc.

We moved past the enthusiast price point maybe 15 years ago. Now its about preservation and bringing back the dead. Rising values justifies increased investment.

I only hope that speculators are a small part of this market. Of course there are some, but hopefully not enough to control the direction up or down. Supply and demand should be based on the desire to own one, not the desire to simply make money from it like its a commodity.

They are special to own, special to drive, and special to look at. Hopefully they are not just another investment like Bitcoin.