Major Service For 355 Video

Took me around 50-60 hours, with a helper. While in there I resealed cam covers, replaced cam sensors, replaced a cv boot with a clean and repack of the joint, replaced timing belt hydraulic tensioners and bearings, cleaned the entire engine and compartment as best I could, swapped test pipes for high flow cats and probably 1 or 2 other things. I'd say that's pretty typical for a major. I don't see how you do that in 20 hours, even if experienced, unless you rush some of it. Cleaning the cam covers without marring them at all, especially with the copius amounts of rtv used previously, took 2-3 hours alone. I did not rebuild water pump, refinish cam covers etc., which I think is often done as part of a major. Maybe a lock and swap could be 20 hours.

 

Just to be clear, I'm saying it takes me 15 hours. I can't see why you'd bother using a degree wheel unless you'd taken the cams and sprockets completely apart. If it's just a belt change and service, why not use the factory marks? I suppose you could just lock the cam wheels in place, but I've always taken the cam covers off and then used a new gasket set (because they're a bugger to seal and usually leak at the joins between gasket and o-ring).

As for all the other jobs, they're purely optional (ie if needed). Mind you, there's usually aways something that needs doing, but with the lump out, I've found most jobs to be pretty simple and accessible.

 

Agreed 355%. There has always been some sort of group hysteria about checking the timing at each and every belt service that just does not make sense. If an engine was running as it should as it came in for a belt service then there is no point checking the cam timing again with a degree wheel (etc) when the outer marks make the full procedure redundant. It is understandable that some customers need a psychological reassurance that the timing was checked in detail but in practice some mechanics may add an hour or two to the final bill for doing so when they do not actually do it as they know it is already right.

RTV should be used only exactly where the gasket meets the o-ring to prevent leaks. This also generally applies on some sump or cam cover rubber gaskets that do not have a continually flat sealing area.

 

I tend to blob a tiny amount just where the gasket meets the o-rings, but even then it'***** and miss as to whether they seal. Annoying, but hey ho.

 

Thanks. If my garage tried to charge me 800 for changing fluids when I'm already paying for 40 hours for a major service, I'd be having words. I'd be interested to know what parts are replaced, with a bill for $2250. Timing and accessory belts, air, fuel and oil filters, gasket set, plugs, new Hill tensioner bearings... I can't get close to that figure.

 

10 quarts of special Ferrari engine oi
4 quarts of gear oil
3 gallons of special BMW blue coolant'
1 quart of brake fluid
1 quart of Power Steering fluid
If you had an F1, 2 quarts of F1 fluid (PS fluid)
R134 service
Hazardous Recycling fees

Add those up and see how close you get to $800

Go to Ricambi USA and look up the 30K service kit. It used to be $1500 but inflation finally hit home on Ferrari stuff. I have recently been so surprised at how expensive things have gotten in exotic car worlds.

They do include all five belts, roller bearings, all gaskets, all Orings of all kinds, all water pump hoses at the front of the engine, all spark plugs, oil / gas / air filters, and a few things I am sure I forgot.

As for the cam timing job, you cannot change the 355 green orings without taking the belts and cam shafts apart. As for cam timing accuracy, it's only as accurate as the last mechanic who did it. If the car is new to you, well you just don't know. As for why would you do it at all just trust the factory marks. Factory marks are wrong sometimes. And yes your car would still run if all you do is lock and swap.

 

A number of those things could have been done on their own. For example on my car I have installed Tubi headers, high flow cars, a broken crank sensor, inner CV boots on both sides, new coils, spark plugs, air filter, O2 sensors, changed the muffler a couple of time, flushed brake fluid and coolant.

I'm sure you can make a T-belt service into a $10k or $20k "Major" project if you neglect things along the way, but in reality the only thing that should be considered part of the "T-belt service" is what's on the front end of the engine, belts, water pump and/or tensioners, if necessary, cam seals. and cam cover gaskets if you think changing belts alters timing (see Kenny D's videos). What you choose to have done, or what else needs to be done due to neglect, are add ons and not part of the T-belt service and hence the term "Major Service" which ends up being a catch all , and is very car dependent, and seemingly an American obsession to spend money.

 

When applied on either side of the gasket and "against" the o'ring it should seal for good. At least it has always worked for me.

Which green o-rings are you refering to?

It's only as accurate as how much one is willing to trust the work of the previous mechanic who did it.

 

This is from 1 year ago for the base cost for a timing belt service . Obviously other "while you are in theres" would be additional.

 

[QUOTE="Timmo, post: 150059415, member: 210967"
Which green o-rings are you refering to?
[/QUOTE]

Number 25.

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Sure they could have been done on their own, but for example the cam sensors fell apart when I disconnected them for the major, the cats made perfect sense to wait until the engine was out and sitting in front of me, I noticed the cv boot when going over the car getting ready to do the major (which was good so I could order and have the parts handy) etc. The tensioners could not have been done and I'd really hate to try to do the valve covers while in the car and that is absolutely part of a typical major. So what I posted is very typical and was not a bunch of might as wells (other than the cats, which was a preference thing because the car makes my eyes water at cold idle without them). I suppose I could have cleaned the engine and compartment at any time but it's obviously way easier with it out.

I did not retime the cams, the factory marks lined up before I took the belts off, so I replaced them and rotated the engine a couple of times to check that the tensioners were set properly and validate the marks still were spot on and called it good. So the actual belts didn't take that much time. The longest of those was cleaning and sealing the valve covers (which have been perfectly leak free and I used about 1/10 the RTV the previous person did) and cleaning and repacking the cv joint. But there were about a dozen 2 hour jobs while the engine was out. That's just how it goes. IIRC day 1, engine was out and in front of us, day 2-3 was doing all the jobs, day 4 putting it back in, day 5 doing all the ancillaries, bleeding coolant, brakes etc. Each day was 10-12 hours. I'm sure i could shave a 12 hour day off of that, but not 3 of them...

 

Thanks. In my experience they can be replaced with the camshafts in place, along with front seals (#27), as the housing #26 comes off and goes back on without issues - at least when tons of RTV was not applied previously by someone who ignored that applying it on "corners" only and as discussed above was well sufficient.
Superformance should include in their cam cover gasket set the 4 small o-rings that fit behind the cam pulley bolts/washers.

 

No, that green oring fits into a groove in the head. You cannot remove the seal housing to replace the green oring unless you loosen the cam shaft, lift up the housing and slide it forward.

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Well, again it is definitely possible. The housing can be wiggled out and pushed back in without damaging the new o'ring. No leak on my side after ~400 miles.
On the F355 it is possible at least and the o-ring is white rather than green.
Perhaps it's not possible on a 348 where the o-ring is green?

 

Sorry, that o-ring is black on the F355. I got confused with white as this was the colour of the RTV used previously and that required much time to clean off everywhere it had been applied.

 

That picture I posted is on a 355. We can peacefully disagree on whether or not the cam has to be loose. It's OK.

 

The only time you 'need' to degree everything with the wheel is if you take the pin and sprocket off the cam. Then you have to start from scratch and have a very good idea what you're doing.
As for everything else, doing a service with belts etc is nowhere near 40 hours. It just isn't.

However.

I've yet to do an engine out on mine where it doesn't include a bunch of 'whilst it's out, I may as well....' and as has been said, half a dozen of those jobs can easily add 1-2 hours each, depending on what's involved. You could spend a full day cleaning everything, let alone doing all the little jobs.

 

Next in the video series....

 

Another great video.
Front o-rings are indeed green, the rear ones are black.

 

I'm doing my engine out service now. I had intended to keep track of the hours but little things creep in to add up so its kind of pointless. For example, I am replacing my water pump (just because I am in there and I have a free water pump) but after I installed the new one, I noticed that one of the studs was striped. I had to take everything apart and now I have to remove the stud and order a new one so there goes additional time. Also one of my brake lines was completely frozen into the connection block so I had to cut it to drop the engine. Now I am spending time sourcing a new brake line and spent at least an hour getting the old one out.

The front CAM O rings were green but the replacement ones that I ordered came in black (for both front and rear).

Thanks to Yelcab for his coaching phone calls.

 

Catchy channel name

 

Convincing people on Fchat to do cam timing on a 355 is ... futile.

 

Like trying to convince people on F-chat that replacing front o-rings requires removing the camshafts when it clearly isn't, as shown once again by Autotechnick in one of his videos?

 

I periodically get comments about that on my videos every few weeks....
Or sometimes multiple from the same guy haha. Thanks for the views regardless


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