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328 cold start question

Discussion in '308/328' started by mike996, Sep 9, 2008.

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  1. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

    Jun 14, 2008
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    Mike 996
    #1 mike996, Sep 9, 2008
    I've noticed in my first 3000 miles on my 328 that on the first start of the day it will typically fire immediately but usually die. Then on the restart it takes maybe 6-8 seconds of cranking before it will start again. This time it will continue running. Is this typical behavior or should I be checking the cold start injector?

    I've been trying to figure out the magic starting sequence - have a Norton Commando so I'm used to magic starting sequences. At least I don't have to kick start the 328! :)
     
  2. wazie7262

    wazie7262 Formula 3

    Feb 13, 2008
    2,357
    Temecula, CA
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    Scott
    #2 wazie7262, Sep 9, 2008
    Hi Mike,

    How often are you driving it? I've noticed a similar occurence in my car when I haven't driven it for a week; they like to be driven :)

    Cordially,

    Scott
     
  3. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,627
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    #3 Steve Magnusson, Sep 9, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2008
    Wouldn't be my first suspect -- that initial immediate "cough" indicates that the cold start injector is squirting. I'd be more suspicious that the warm-up regulator is not providing enough enrichment when cold (i.e., the cold control pressure from the warm-up regulator is too high so the engine lights off on the burst of fuel delivered from the cold start injector, but when that stops spraying (which it should after a second or two), it dies because the high control pressure limits the movement of the plunger + airflow metering plate in the FD more than it should (which limits the amount of fuel flowing thru the FD).

    If you wait ~5 minutes between the dying after the first attempt and making a 2nd attempt, does it give another immediate "cough" at the start of the 2nd attempt?
     
  4. ducowti

    ducowti Formula 3

    Jan 27, 2008
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    NY/SC
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    David
    #4 ducowti, Sep 9, 2008
    Steve, you are a tremendous wealth of knowledge on these cars; thanks for taking the time to help us w.things like this :)

    Sorry this wasn't a constructive reply to your issue Mike, but I just wanted to acknowledge Steve's helpfulness.
     
    Lawrence Coppari and Michael DB like this.
  5. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    Mike 996
    #5 mike996, Sep 9, 2008
    I've been driving it every day and it did the same thing on the cross-country drive.

    I'll check out the WUR - makes sense, thanks.
     
  6. bill brooks

    bill brooks F1 Veteran
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    Jul 30, 2007
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    bill brooks
    #6 bill brooks, Sep 9, 2008
    have you tried kick-starting your 328?
     
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  7. Steve Magnusson

    Steve Magnusson Two Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 11, 2001
    26,627
    30°30'40" N 97°35'41" W (Texas)
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    #7 Steve Magnusson, Sep 9, 2008
    Thanks for the kind words David -- and no guarentee that it couldn't be something completely different ;), but, on the K-Jet, warm-running can usually be OK, even if other things aren't quite right, because it specifically gets tweaked-up in that condition -- so if warm-running and warm-starting is OK, and something isn't well with cold-running or cold-starting, the WUR is a likely suspect to rule in or out first (and that means making the cold and warm control pressure measurements).

    Mike -- You didn't mention it directly, but is your warm restart behavior OK?
     
  8. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #8 mike996, Sep 10, 2008
    Steve - warm start is immediate - no issue at all. The more I think about it, the more it sounds like the WUR. If I start the car and immediately drive off and turn on the ac, the car will usually stall, or nearly stall, at the first stop, when I let off the throttle completely. The idle is slow until the engine is warmed up. Once warmed up, everything is perfectly normal. It hasn't changed its behavior since I got it - 3000 miles (but only 3 weeks) ago.

    I have rebuilt/disassembled WURs before for other people but have never done any troubleshooting/work on a K-jet (or any Bosch FI system). I now have a copy of Probst's Bosch fuel injection book so I'll be researching the issue there as well and hopefully I'll soon understand the system better than just the general way I do now.

    I welcome any/all thoughts, suggestions, guidance, whatever!
     
  9. fletch62

    fletch62 Formula Junior

    Mar 8, 2004
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    Fairhope, AL
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    Larry Fletcher
    #9 fletch62, Sep 10, 2008
    It sounds like warm up regulator, your car should have one that adjusts for altitude. I have rebuilt lots of them. Call me and I can give you all the test pressures and talk you through testing it.

    Larry Flercher
    CIS Flow Tech Llc
    251-929-3771
     
  10. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #10 mike996, Sep 11, 2008
    THanks Larry, that's very kind of you! I'll give you a call when I get to working on the WUR. I found yesterday that if, on cold starting, I tap the pedal a bit, just to give it a touch of throttle as it's starting, it starts immediately and continues running. Not that it SHOULD be that way but it's an easy work-around until I get to it.
     
  11. jimmyp11

    jimmyp11 Karting

    Dec 25, 2019
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    Port Charlotte FL
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    jim patterson
    #11 jimmyp11, Apr 11, 2025
    I know this is ancient. Did you get a solution way back then? I have the same problem with an 84 308 qv.
     
  12. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #12 mike996, Apr 12, 2025
    Sadly - I don't remember what I did back then though I do recall checking all the pressures in the fuel system (hot and cold) after purchasing the appropriate gauge set - which is still in the toolbox and hasn't been used since. The car has had no starting issues since I "fixed" it back then but I have absolutely no memory of what I did though I vaguely recall that it was WUR related as was suggested by Steve M. I should have made notes/retained them but, just like taking pics while working, once I get started doing work I just never think of that/don't want to bother with it. ;)
     
  13. jimmyp11

    jimmyp11 Karting

    Dec 25, 2019
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    jim patterson
    #13 jimmyp11, Apr 12, 2025
    Haha - Yeah, after I sent this I noticed it was 16 years ago! I bought a rebuilt WUR from a place in Australia before everyone hated us, and no change in my case.

    Anyway, thanks for the reply and I will also go poking around on pressures.
     
  14. mike996

    mike996 F1 Veteran

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    #14 mike996, Apr 12, 2025
    Holy moly, I've been on this site for more than 16 Years????:eek::rolleyes::(
     
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  15. jimmyp11

    jimmyp11 Karting

    Dec 25, 2019
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    jim patterson
    #15 jimmyp11, Apr 12, 2025
    I just looked, I have a watch site, 13 years. Audio site, 15 years. My longest eBay since 1996 :)
     

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