car design thread | Page 773 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  2. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  3. Schultz

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    Last years winner - Rohan Seiber- had a pretty awesome design. I'm guessing he learned a lot from getting 2nd place the prior year.

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  4. jm2

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    Pininfarina & Cadillac
    Never a Dull Moment — Part Twelve


    The Italians are coming!

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    Pininfarina. Cadillac. Two strong brands with rich histories. Pininfarina had a long standing relationship with GM Design since the 1930s. Bill Mitchell built upon the relationship during the 1960s and a mutual respect developed with design as the common denominator. The best was yet to come and the marriage between these two giants would yield the Cadillac Allanté’.

    As Cadillac Division was in the throes of reinventing itself during the malaise/lost era of the 1970s, Mercedes-Benz would prove to be a goal to aim for. More and more Cadillac customers were abandoning the brand for European brands and Mercedes in particular. One product missing from the Cadillac portfolio was a sporty two-seat convertible/roadster. As purchasing power and disposable income increased in North America, customers were seeking the open air thrills of an open, compact sports touring car. Mercedes had a history of offering stunning two-seat roadsters beginning in 1957 with the 300 SL and 190 SL. This led to the iconic 230 SL ‘Pagoda Roof’ design. With the beginning of the 1970s, the R107 became the two-seat standard bearer for the marque.

    Cadillac looked at what Mercedes was doing with their open-air cars and decided an open two-seater would be a great addition to the Cadillac portfolio for the younger demographic the division was looking for. After much conversation and planning, the decision was made to proceed with designing and engineering a viable competitor to what the Germans had.

    1958 Skylight study for Cadillac by Pininfarina. Source: **********.com

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest-300x225.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-126421" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest.jpg" alt="" width="675" height="507" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest.jpg 675w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest-300x225.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest-150x113.jpg 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/cadimycarquest-466x350.jpg 466w" sizes="(max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    1958 Skylight study for Cadillac by Pininfarina. Source: **********.com
    Early 1980’s, Cadillac was struggling with a clear concise vision. The cars had grown too large for many defecting customers and quality had slipped precipitously. The V8-6-4/Diesel debacle was still ongoing and the Cimarron was on the verge of its debut. Added to that, the ‘BustleBack’ Seville had just been introduced to the public. There were many in the Cadillac organization that were uneasy with the direction the brand was taking, and that included design.

    1959 Starlight study by Pininfarina. Source: Old Concept Cars

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars-300x225.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-126423" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars.jpg" alt="" width="748" height="561" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars.jpg 748w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars-300x225.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars-150x113.jpg 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/oldconceptcars-467x350.jpg 467w" sizes="(max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    1959 Starlight study by Pininfarina. Source: Old Concept Cars
    Quietly the Division had talked about a two-seater, but the question of design troubled some executives. All that was going on within GM Design with downsizing, executive leadership changes and upcoming cars, was there any possibility to ‘go outside’ for a design solution? The ‘BustleBack’ Seville hadn’t been tested in the real world yet and no one knew how the public would receive the controversial design. Additionally there were questions about the ability to compete with Mercedes with such a North American-centric design. Many unknowns.

    1959 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham. design by Cadillac, built by Pininfarina. Only 99 made. Source: Classic Cars Today

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday-300x217.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-126425" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday.jpg" alt="" width="724" height="523" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday.jpg 724w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday-300x217.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday-150x108.jpg 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/1959-Cadillac-Eldorado-Broughamclassiccarstoday-485x350.jpg 485w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    1959 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham. design by Cadillac, built by Pininfarina. Only 99 made. Source: Classic Cars Today
    With the history Pininfarina had with GM Design and Cadillac, everything conspired to gravitate towards the famous Italian Design house. The goal was to have a ‘name’ designer rather than the ‘in house’ Cadillac Design team. No one knew who GM Designers were, but a famous Italian design organization that designed the most beautiful Ferraris certainly had a cachet associated with it. Emboldened with their history of a relationship with Pininfarina, Cadillac decided to forge ahead and establish some criteria and ground rules for a relationship.

    1961 Jacqueline study for Cadillac by Pininfarina. Source: Cadillac Database

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PFspec4bColcadillacdatabase-300x130.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PFspec4bColcadillacdatabase.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-126427" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PFspec4bColcadillacdatabase.jpg" alt="" width="692" height="300" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PFspec4bColcadillacdatabase.jpg 692w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PFspec4bColcadillacdatabase-300x130.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/PFspec4bColcadillacdatabase-150x65.jpg 150w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    1961 Jacqueline study for Cadillac by Pininfarina. Source: Cadillac Database
    Of course, all of this was taking place behind the scenes and no one at GM Design was aware of just what was going on. The studio was engaged with finishing the 1984 Devilles/Fleetwoods, the Cimarron and the upcoming downsized 1986 Eldorado/Seville. To say we had our hands full was an understatement.

    But like most things in large organizations, the rumor mill was in hyperdrive — all the time. Eventually, word leaked out that Cadillac was indeed looking at doing a two-seater, but the problem was they weren’t talking to the studio about it — in fact were tight lipped and in denial about any such thing.

    Now this is where I state the obvious but every car designer on the planet dreams of doing two-seat sport/luxury/touring cars. Period. And I certainly was no exception. I dreamed of working on a project like that after working all day on sedans and Cimarrons! I needed to do this.

    Enquiring with Cadillac personnel left much to the imagination. Very little information was forthcoming and no details were available but being persistent, I finally got some of the engineers and planners to fess up and admit to the secret plan. What I learned did not make me happy. They reluctantly confessed that Cadillac did not want the Cadillac Studio to design their flagship two-seater and in fact were going to hire a ‘name’ design house, Pininfarina. Talk about taking the wind out of one’s sails. I was devastated. How could they?

    I complained to Wayne Kady the Chief Designer, and he concurred that this would be a morale killer in the studio. To his credit he went to Irv Rybicki and Chuck Jordan for clarification. After much handwringing the executives reluctantly agreed to let the studio put together our own proposal. They made it abundantly clear that there were no guarantees Cadillac would even consider our designs, and in fact several Cadillac individuals assured me that we weren’t even in contention and the decision had already been finalized. We were just ‘pissing in the wind’ so to speak.

    Cadillac Design team proposal rendering. Source: GM Design.

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53 PM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x-300x212.png" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53 PM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x.png" class="size-full wp-image-126463" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53%E2%80%AFPM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x.png" alt="" width="709" height="500" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53%E2%80%AFPM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x.png 709w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53%E2%80%AFPM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x-300x212.png 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53%E2%80%AFPM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x-150x106.png 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/Allante-red-sketchScreenshot-2024-05-29-at-3.41.53%E2%80%AFPM-gigapixel-standard-v2-1.4x-496x350.png 496w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Cadillac Design team proposal rendering. Source: ©GM Design.
    I made up my mind I was going to do everything in my power to get involved with the project even if it meant working on my own time after hours and weekends. What an opportunity. Doing a two-seater for Cadillac — it didn’t get any better than that. In addition to my studio responsibilities I added this to my schedule. This was going to be so much fun, as we all had dreamed of this.

    Cadillac Studio proposal, with the Design team. JM II left of picture. Source: GM

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_9898-300x117.jpeg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_9898.jpeg" class="size-full wp-image-126464" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_9898.jpeg" alt="" width="750" height="293" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_9898.jpeg 750w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_9898-300x117.jpeg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_9898-150x59.jpeg 150w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Cadillac Studio proposal, with the Design team. JM II left of picture. Source: ©GM Design.
    I and the other designers in the studio cranked out proposal after proposal. Eventually a full size clay was constructed and the day of reckoning was fast approaching. Several GM Design executives had travelled to Italy with Cadillac to review Pininfarina’s proposal and a meeting was set up for a showdown on the GM design courtyard. The show day came and on the patio were a fiberglass Pininfarina car, a Mercedes Roadster and the Cadillac Studio’s clay. After a great deal of discussion, everyone appeared happy and they all left the patio. No one had bothered to look at our clay. No one.

    GM management, Cadillac and the Pininfarina contingent all went away happy. We were left looking at one another — incredulous. After all that?

    Sergio & Andrea Pininfarina, Chuck Jordan and Stan Wilen from GM Design
    Patio review Allante. Source: GM Design via Velocetoday

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday-300x241.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-126388" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday.jpg" alt="" width="780" height="626" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday.jpg 780w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday-300x241.jpg 300w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday-150x120.jpg 150w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday-768x616.jpg 768w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/allantevelocetoday-436x350.jpg 436w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 709px) 85vw, (max-width: 909px) 67vw, (max-width: 984px) 61vw, (max-width: 1362px) 45vw, 600px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Sergio & Andrea Pininfarina, Chuck Jordan and Stan Wilen from GM Design. Patio review Allante. Source: GM Design via Velocetoday
    I enlisted the services of one of the clay modelers in the studio who was born in Italy to accompany me outside so that I could speak with the two Pininfarina personnel there to look after their model. They didn’t speak English and I didn’t speak Italian, but my cohort spoke fluent Italian so I asked if there was a possibility of ‘acquiring’ one of their cool Pininfarina jump-suits as a consolation prize. They looked like they didn’t get it nor understand why I wanted such a thing. Several hours later a neatly wrapped brown paper package arrived in the studio. I still have it to this day.

    Source: The author

    " data-medium-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1-158x300.jpg" data-large-file="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1.jpg" class="size-full wp-image-126386" src="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1.jpg" alt="" width="398" height="758" srcset="https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1.jpg 398w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1-158x300.jpg 158w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1-79x150.jpg 79w, https://driventowrite.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/IMG_3288-1-184x350.jpg 184w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 398px) 85vw, 398px" style="-x-ignore: 1">
    Source: The author
    Author’s note: The Cadillac Studio proposal had never been shown to the public. Recently however, photos of the Cadillac Studio proposal have been revealed.

    https://driventowrite.com/2025/04/17/john-manoogianii-memoir-gm-design-part-twelve-2/#more-126375
     
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  5. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  7. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  8. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Are there other photos of the Cadillac Studio proposal available besides the profile view? Any photos of all three proposal review cars together?
     
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  9. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Yes there are. Still pondering whether I post them.
    It wasn’t one of my favorite cars I I worked on. Some projects are out of your control.
     
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  10. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
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    I would like to see the clay and the development drawings to better see where the studio was headed.
     
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  11. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I have a question and I hope it doesnt come off wrong. It just popped into my head while watching Stephensons YT channel.

    There must be thousands of people who graduate every year with a degree in auto design, yet it seems like theres only a few dozen people worldwide who rise to a position where they are the guiding designer on a vehicle.

    What percentage of these designers actually get to design a vehicle that is produced? It seems like its an incredibly small number. Am I wrong?
     
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  12. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Nope.
    Many are called, few are chosen.

    Of all the film school grads, how many go on to direct their own movies?

    Car design like other creative professions is hyper competitive. It’s harder to become a car designer than it is to become an NFL football player.
    How many so-called writers wind up writing a novel or book?

    Not trying to be a smart a$$, but that’s the long and the short of it.
     
  13. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    Id actually argue a lot higher percentage of film school grads go on to direct a movie than auto designers. Theres just a lot more movies made than new cars designed.

    Thats what spurred my thought, how few new cars are actually produced.

    Writing is a different thing altogether as you dont need to be hired to write. You do it on your own then self publish. Costs nothing. An auto designer cant do that.

    I honestly cant think of another degree where its so unlikely you will actually get to the top of the mountain to do what you wanted to do.

    And this is ab observation not a criticism. It is what it is, and Id hope young people think about that before going to school. I think this might be the toughest industry for a creative to get to the top.
     
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  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    You are certainly correct.
    I taught Automotive Design to the Senior Class at a top design school for 8 years. First day of class I always told them what I previously wrote. Of the 15+ students here, only a couple will eventually become a professional car designer.

    My own personal experience is still etched in my mind. I graduated with 9 students. We all worked our rear ends off for 2+ years. I was the only one that became a professional car designer. That broke my heart. I still have survivor’s guilt at times.

    Nothing has changed in 50 years. Each year the schools graduate a group of students. Of all those grads, very few will land a job as a professional car designer.
     
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  15. Schultz

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    2025 Easter Jeep Safari Brings Out the Concepts, But No Excess HP

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    Anyone ever been? It says 20,000 people attend. I'll highlight my two favorite- check out the article for details on them all.

    A 2025 gladiator has been hit with the J series treatment and a chocolate theme to the interior and frabics. I'll take mine with an orange or bronze exterior color to blend into the dunes.

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    The middle east would love these things.. imagine a dune day with all the tourists bouncing around in that bed!
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    Bug Out
    A 4xe converted to 2 doors and adorned with a raised roof, revised hood, and a splatter of yellow graphics.
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    Definitely getting modern day jeepster vibes here
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  16. jm2

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    That car was done so quickly that there was very little development time nor iterations. I wasn't happy with the direction nor the final results, but there was nothing i could do.


    Several of many full size tape drawings I did.
     
  17. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  18. jm2

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  19. rmnunez

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  20. rmnunez

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    That was a great read, thanks for sharing ! Can’t imagine the moral of the studio after this debacle. My family owns a 91 Allante, always felt the package was not ideal to compete with the SL and the build quality wasn’t up to par. Missed opportunities I gues.
     
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  21. jm2

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  22. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    The demographics they look at are mainly women with short hair and PETA members, I think. Not people who are into car design.:D
     
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  23. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    They just keep getting weirder and weirder. :eek:
     
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  24. NeuroBeaker

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    It's... different. o_O

    All the best,
    Andrew.
     
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