Restoration Costs of Classic Ferraris.

331 and 10.

 

Dyke, I’m sorry to see you having to go through this kind of nonsense yet again.
I was trying to hint/yell without being too loud or obvious but apparently failed to make myself clear enough.
Hopefully there won’t be a next time, but if there is, I’ll try harder.

P.S. Your patience and tolerance is quite remarkable.

 

That's it or at least a great part of it. I also very much agree with @rob lay that it's a sliding scale based on the car and the value of that car. I recently heard of the long lost Maserati 5000gt Ghia 1-off is working out to be a $800k-$1m job, which I 100% believe as there isn't a panel on that thing that doesn't have to be remade. I'm no judge or expert but some of these restoration bills make me spit my coffee out when I see the 'before' pictures, which often times just look like a driven but otherwise straight and running example.


Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

Just because a car appears to be running, drivable and otherwise straight example doesn't mean it can require hundreds or thousand of hour to make it "right".
While all haven't been Ferraris or exotic sports car, I've restored or been involved with restorations of cars that many thought would've been ready for a Concours "as is", but also restored some as bad or worse than your pictured example and some freshly or partially finished, but utterly botched, so-called "restorations(?)". One thing they all have had in common, they all required more work than initially anticipated or expected, some significantly more.

I'm currently rebuilding an engine from a 65 y.o. car that could easily win BiC (or perhaps even BoS ?) in most 2nd tier Concourses. The engine itself, along with the rest of the car, looked gorgeous & more detailed than factory, was running and drivable (well, almost, due to a spun rod bearing), has a rather unusual (& rare) multi-piece aluminum intake manifold system, which after removal & disassembly revealed to have severe internal oxidation/corrosion that I'm in the midst of repairing by cutting open certain sections of the cast aluminum with bandsaw, grinders & a milling machine, adding (alloy) materials by welding, re-grinding, machining, etc and making it all look like nobody's ever been there.
I did another, identical engine couple of years ago and it's intake system had similar but not quite as "severe" problems and took over 50 hrs to repair & correct.
Try explaining that to some random inexperienced vintage car owner (or used car salesman) who insists on knowing upfront how much the engine rebuild in their "classic" will cost.
And mind you, these examples are just American made production car V8s which due to their rarity and decades long appeal to collectors have lived relatively pampered lives.

I'm also in the midst of another rebuild of a 70 y.o. engine which prior to my involvement had allegedly been "freshly & fully rebuilt" and probably had been ran less than 10 minutes, but after seeing some of less than confidence inspiring workmanship(?) on the outside, I decided to pull the oil pan and valve covers (while the engine was still in the car), only to see further evidence suggesting a need for removal & complete tear-down and while the engine had been as claimed , "fully(?) rebuilt", everything was hackwork at best and I doubt it would've lasted/ran even few hours.

And again, these are just examples of engines and what goes into their rebuild/restoration, which still leaves another +/-100.000 (or more) individual items/parts in each car needing to be rebuilt/reconditioned/restored to like-new-condition for it all to become considered as a "full/complete/proper restoration".

 

Timo: Thank you for your comments and support. Over the years I have tried (with some success) to willingly share on this forum my small amount of hard earned knowledge and experience, in the hope it would in some way benefit other enthusiasts. I have always valued your thoughts highly because you have ACTUAL experience working on the cars. Nothing can replace actually having your hands on the parts. People can read books and look at photos all they want, but only if you are in the arena and doing the work can you truly hope to learn about the cars. Only those in the arena are real players, the others in the grandstands can only hope to learn from the actual "players". Maybe not the nicest thing to say, but the hard truth. Sometimes people are not ready to accept other thoughts or views, to their own detriment. Too bad for all of us.

 

Dyke, it truly means a lot when someone like you acknowledges & appreciates my experience, however less or limited it may be compared to yours and some others here.
I know you're trying to advise & help by sharing your experience and although I approach it differently*, so do I, but it often becomes just a waste of time & effort.

* While being blunt may not always seem like the nicest thing to say or do, sometimes it's the only way to serve reality and "the hard truth".

 

A clarification to 'miurasv' comment on the 275GTB numbers. Your implied assumption that long-nose 275GTB/2 and 275GTB/4 share the same long-nose body parts is not fully accurate. There are nuances of difference. 275 4-cam has a different grille opening (wider) and different grille (wider, one more vertical slat) compared to a proper 2-cam long-nose. The rear ducktail spoiler is more vertical on a 4-cam compared to the gentler 2-cam shape. And of course the obvious hood bulge. In any case the numbers produced are small, and the fitting of new panels to old on hand-built coachwork is never a perfect alignment, requiring skilled fitment and plenty of adjustment to get the lines right.

 

And that’s the challenge for both the buyer and restorer… you really don’t know until the car is stripped/opened up (Same way for historic buildings).
At least with the Maserati in your post you can k now going in that everything will need work. How much is an open question.

 

And why vast majority* of buyers/owners of vintage cars & their chosen** restorers end up with often botched or at least far less than adequate or as expected, let alone proper, results.

*I'd say at least 98%

** Most often chosen for the lowest bid, which is almost always a recipe for disappointment or complete disaster.
I've recently seen a very dear 87 y.o. friend go through this with a pickup he purchased new in 1967 and wants to leave it "fully restored" to his daughter, born also in 1967.
He didn't accept my help or involvement, both which I offered for free, because he thought my time is worth too much for his "little" project, which he and his chosen restorer agreed on taking 3-4 months and less than $25K .
Now, it's been almost 3 years, a whole lot more money, not to mention aggrevation and the truck is not even close to be done, although he pulled it out of the restorers shop already last summer and is trying to finish it on his own (but still not willing to let me help).

 

Congrats on the 'Triade', but as probably English is your second language as it is mine somewhat, most offended subjects, may not catch your 'nuance'.

Kind regards,

Alberto

 

Timo, as you well know, we restore our cars here, and have an easy time understanding the 'poor souls' that get taken. I think you are generous with the 98%.

My dear friend N. Epifani, a PB most esteemed judge, taught me the 'finer art' of restoration, and what the "eyes do not see", neither does the heart.

Unfortunately, the wallet does not either, as not too closely attached to the brain, but more to the 'gut'. Just look at the markets. Brains or gut?

Kudos on the 'real' disclosures.

Regards, Alberto

 

Alberto, Nino was a very valuable resource for me when I was trying to locate the proper FIMAC 3096 fuel pump for my car. Is he still with us or is Paolo running the shop now?

Best regards,

Robert

 

as I always say:
to restore a car it takes 100 % of money, but to restore it only to 90 % it takes only 30 % of money, the rest 10 % to do are then the 70%

 

Dear Robert,

You were lucky to have him help you, he must have liked you, the car, and the passion. A very difficult, yet incredibly knowledgeable man.

Unfortunately Nino is no longer with us, last year he left at over 90, and Paolo w/ Deb are running the shop.
He was a terrific man, a great friend, did not tolerate fools gladly, hated garlic, and loud people at restaurants. A fun Neapolitan man through and through.

I had the fortune of meeting him 40 years ago, when he restored my Alfa GTa, and had the patience to take me trought it 100%. Great lessons from a spectacular teacher.
I had smallish funds, so he worked on my car, as small amounts flowed in from me, with partial labour contributions on my side.
So, we had all the time in the world. Still have it, has never turned a wheel under its own power, the best GTA he ever restored (his words).
Hopefully, I will buy a helmet this year, and take it to Sears Point.

He was known, 'to have a direct line to the Vatican'

Best regards,
Alberto

 

The financial aspect of restoration is an entire discussion in and of itself with numerous minefields and pitfalls. In my twenties I had this idea, 'you get what you pay for'. A sweet sentiment but missing something. As my mentor taught me, 'you get what you pay for if you're lucky'.
Restoration, like many things in life, appears a lot simpler than it often is.

Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

I agree with most of this ^ and why I stated earlier about those with little to no experience usually end up getting what they “bargain” for.
I’ve also always believed that like with any leisure or luxury in life, if “financial aspect” is a considerable concern or worry for someone buying, owning or restoring antique/classic/exotic/etc vehicle(s), it’s a pretty clear indication they shouldn’t be involved with such in the first place.

 

Reminds me of this famous quote that I think fits this area well:
“I’ve learned that when a man with money meets a man with experience, the man with experience ends up with the money and the man with the money ends up with experience.”
― H. Jackson Brown Jr