That’s why Schumacher is the goat. When he went to Ferrari, he managed to win a few races where Berger and Alesi couldn’t win even one. man’s he dragged the team to a dominant one I’m glad Lewis got out of his comfort zone and joined Ferrari for all to gauge. Now it’s settled in my mind.
For me Senna is far above everyone else. As far as Lewis, id like to remind you what schumacher did at Mercedes in his comeback:nothing. I do think MS is superior to Lewis but cant judge a seemingly past his prime lewis at Ferrari. If he were 30 maybe. Easy to forget how fast Lewis was in his prime and early days... He litterally was as fast as 2 WDC Fernando Alonso. Over the years he has lost speed and his driving style is more prost like than senna like
I think we often forget that Lewis did an enormous amount of testing prior to getting the full season drive. His preparation was HUGE. He did just under 8000km of testing in 06 and pre 1st race 07, all on bridgestone tyres. That's 27 full GPs worth of testing, at the time around 1.5 seasons worth. Doesn't include 07 pre season testing that...which was another 3-4K KM Not to say his first year was very impressive, it was. As for schumacher and his comeback to Mercedes, this was post neck injury, 3 year out, and 40 years old. Lewis has the age but he didn't have 3 years of non racing activities, no neck injury, nothing. 2012 Schumacher against a prime rosberg was very impressive just desperately unlucky. Believe 2nd half of the season when he stopped having issues with the car he outscored Rosberg.
Lewis got another kind of win today. Newey left F1 Red Bull last year in Miami. Max lost his dominance that day, and status of the only driver who could challenge Lewis's record of 105 wins. Every loss puts Max further from ever breaking Lewis's amazing record of being the only driver to win more then 100 races. From pole Max still can't dominate on track.
Lol, Max is far from done. The fact that he is still this competitive in a lesser car speaks volumes to his ability and potential. Records are meant to be broken. You should hope Max gets bored and retires soon. If not, he will surely crush many more records.
You just started watching F1? Many top management have consistently credited MS in setting up Mercedes to the force they were during their dominant period. https://www.f1oversteer.com/news/ross-brawn-states-why-even-lewis-hamilton-is-not-above-michael-schumacher/ The team was well oiled and already prepared in advance when Lewis showed up.
Fully agreed. Michael was the GOAT. He dragged the Ferrari POS around for so many years. Try that with Hamilton. Dude will be whining non stop of how he wants to retire the car. Truly the most luckiest driver of all time.
Exactly. If anything 2024 and this season are defining who is the best driver in the sport right now. And it's definitely not Lewis doing that
Don't worry: Max has said many times that he is not interested in being #1 on any list and long before he will reach the number of 105 wins, he will be bullied away by silly FIA rules and partial steward decisions.
Not missed one grand prix since 1987. thank u. MS was not good at mercedes as a driver and got spanked 3 years straight end of the story. U are turning this into something i wasnt talking about
In your earlier post you seem to say that MS doing bad at Mercedes and making it an age thing, whilst ignoring the significant facts that contributed to him being slower, notably his neck injury and the 3 year complete break from any racing. 2012 showed he still had it but record is skewed because of the horrendous reliability issues he had in first half of the season. Not to say age isn't a factor either (for both).
U are changing the topic to serve ur agenda. So i will remind you what as driver MS did versus rosberg. I dont care about his car development here, you brought it up not me. Michael at Mercedes was injured, past his prime and dominated by a guy whom i dont think ranks extremely high. MS is one of the best all time but sorry he was just subpar at Mercedes and if you really think his development carried all the way till 2019 with all the changes f1 has year over year... good for u ! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
You are right: never mind how you massage them, the stats speak for themselves, and the numbers don't lie. Schumacher was out of his depth during the 3 years at Mercedes, and regularly beaten by his younger team mate. His come back was a total flop; now some people spin that failure, saying MS "built" the team and created the car Hamilton inherited. Total BS !!!
Pro level at ANY sports is cruel and difficult to reach. We are talking milliseconds here. Hamilton never retired for instance so he is fading slowly but the truth is here for him too. He isnt what he used to be and just watching old races of his shows me how he used to be quicker and more agressive. Gone are the days were like in 92-93 where Mansell and Prost could be WDC at a rather f1 advanced age. I am not questioning MS status as one of the best but sadly his Merc campaign was poor, with many mistakes and only a flashes of brilliance. Id have liked him to win a couple but it wasnt meant to be
Who is speaking about 2019? Michael and Brawn + tech team behind the engine laid down the fundamentals for the 2014. Mercedes was a MESS when they took over Brawn, the team was nothing but a skeleton crew that ran the previous season on a shoestring. In 2012 they had 3 developments going on; the current car, 2013 AND 2014. Michael and Brawn where absolutely fundamental to the success Hamilton enjoyed (whom had a very hard time against the guy that doesn't rank very high, your words, not mine). Looking up wiki results is just the cheapest way to try and prove a point when a fraction of the story behind it is told. No one is saying that Michael did an amazing job, but to write it off as entirely unimpressive is either deliberately ignoring circumstances or a complete lack of understanding of sport (and given your own sporting back ground that would surprise me)
Schumacher was faster than Rosberg in 2012. The same Rosberg that was faster than Lewis in 2014. Did you even watch 2012? MSC got Grosjean'd multiple times and had horrendous luck.
Mate, lets agree to disagree. You not catching my point at all. I haven't even in my entire posts mentioned 2019, it's you who is changing the agenda here. Just look at what Bas wrote. It's pretty much what exactly I have been saying.
Lol --- U responded to me not the other way around,introducing something i wasnt even talking about.... Like i said if you think that Hamilton was winning races in 2020 because of schumacher's development.... Good for u !
I was watching the Pre Race show from Imola and Lewis had an interview with Skysport Italy with some interesting comments. He said that he wants a car with more and more rear end. He believes that everyone up and down the grid and in the past wants the most stable rear end possible and that all through his Mercedes days the car had an excellent rear end and that's fundamentally required to have a fast car. Contrary to his own words, it is no secret that Max Verstappen wants more and more front end. He just can't get enough of it. I've mentioned it before that the super greats like Schumacher, Senna, and Verstappen all wanted a supremely sharp car that didn't understeer. His statements support my believe that Lewis Hamilton is an ordinary driver. A very very good one, don't get me wrong. But who hasn't heard that understeer is slow, loose is fast, or something similar? I don't think Lewis can handle those difficult cars that are insanely fast if you can tame it. There is also more than enough evidence that supports that Lewis isn't great at adapting to cars. It seems he relies on the team to develop around his needs. I wonder what Charles Leclerc's preference is. Typically you would assume someone that is that fast over a single lap and one of the brightest stars in qualifying would prefer a sharp front end. I worry that Lewis and Charles have very different preferences and the team will develop more towards Lewis' wants and it may not be the right direction to getting an ultimately faster car. Though I do think there are more ways for a team to find downforce in the rear of the car than the front, so I could be wrong. I also am absolutely convinced that if Hamilton joined Red Bull, he would also be 4 or 5 tenths slower than Max (maybe more) because their styles are so supremely different. On the other hand, I think Lewis and Vettel would have made brilliant teammates. I recall hearing and reading that Vettel liked a very stable rear end as well. The 2011 Red Bull with its blown diffuser had so much rear downforce and Vettel absolutely loved that car. When he moved to Ferrari Vettel got somewhat exposed for being an "ordinary driver". Once again, very good but we saw enough reasons to keep 4x champ Vettel off our GOAT lists.
There is more than one way to skin a cat. What works for one driver may not work for the other. If Max can't drive a stable car fast, then he has an incapability too. I've seen Sir Lewis Hamilton get results in both stable and unstable cars. The best steup is the setup that makes the driver comfortable/faster.
One point I am making is it makes sense why Lewis' teammates are often close to him or can beat him in outright pace. It's a generic type driver that likes a very stable car that just has grip everywhere. Rosberg, Bottas, Russell, you name it, they can all drive his type of car quickly. If the car is good enough, it can get on pole and win races. However, that could mean that drivers like Lewis can't find those extra 1, 2, 3, or 4+ tenths that the likes of Max can, because they can't handle a car that's on that knife's edge. I think Max can drive more common balanced or common setup cars quickly. He was doing that against Ricciardo when he was still very young and DR was in top form. Will he be the 4 or 5 tenths ahead of his teammates in those type of cars with that type of setup? I doubt it. I think his ability to drive those super sharp, positive front end cars is what gives him those extra few tenths.
+1 And the idea that max can't drive a stable car fast goes out the window pretty quickly given how quick he is in a GT3, where cars are inherently much more stable because of the type of drivers it attracts in order to go racing.
