250 GTO (3589GT)

They didn't get the front licence plate details and its positioning on the nose quite right either.

 

Once you realize 3589 was restored by Classiche, all your questions are answered.

 

All my questions are answered by the seller overseeing and ultimately responsible for it all.

 

Steve: Here we go again. You have not actually had a car restored by Classiche, nor (I suspect) participated with them in a restoration. The owner has little or NO control over what they do with the car. They are NEVER to be questioned. Any information they present is gospel, and becomes the final word. The owner has only a choice to accept their product or try to get the car back from them before more damage is done. This same situation also occurs in the certification program.

 

And if you end up as the next buyer/owner, it will be your car to do whatever you want, even fix it to your liking, right ?

Other than typical marketing jargon, I don’t see anything irrefutable or unsubstantiated in the following statement…

At least whoever made it, wasn’t foolish enough to include any claims or reference to “as originally built/delivered by the factory” often seen in similar context.

 

Dyke, I’m yelling out loud again.

 

Timo: Yes, specifically understood. However other people on the forum who follow the Ferrari concours world need to understand how the factory Classiche program and restoration operation actually works.

 

A factor worth bringing forward to this thread is the fact that the Ferrari factory archive is more extensive than what's broadly assumed. This is especially true when dealing with the competition cars (for obvious reasons).

While restorers are crafty when it comes to research and authentication, some documentation is simply out of reach. It's tough to refute original archival data supplied by the original manufacturer and presented by knowledgeable individuals.

 

Whilst I am not for a second claiming that I have your extensive experience and knowledge in restoring Ferraris, I have actually had a number of dealings with Ferrari Classiche including correspondence with Piero Ferrari on a number of important competition cars. In fact they have contacted me for information and research that I have made, so please cut the implication that I am totally ignorant and wet behind the ears as far as Ferrari Classiche is concerned.

I actually know people who have informed Ferrari Classiche of mistakes they have made during restorations of their cars and they subsequently corrected them. Just one instance is of a very important 250 GT SWB Competizione having some incorrect details on the Cold Air Box during its Classiche restoration. The owner pointed out the errors and they were corrected by Ferrari Classiche, so in that instance they were not as rigid as you state and that "They are NEVER to be questioned" was not true of them. Perhaps in your case you did not provide enough proof/evidence for them to correct or change their course.

There are also people who are just not knowledgeable enough or as knowledgeable as they claim to oversee restorations, even by Ferrari Classiche.

 

Steve: I did not imply that you were TOTALLY ignorant. My mistake. I forgot that you are always correct in any discussion on any matter regarding Ferrari. Your personal dealings and obvious friendship with Piero Ferrari is definitely a sign of how fully immersed he is in the daily work of Classiche. I will try to not darken your door again.

 

Partially ignorant, is a better description. Even Einstein was. Don't forget Forghieri and his praise.

Piero Lardi Ferrari, has better things to do.

You actually know People, or 'of people' ? As in reliable sources? Anyhow, Is Ferrari Classiche infallible? Is their restoration perfect as, say the man that built your Patek Philippe
wristwatch, and is restoring it back to when "he built it" 40 years ago? Oh to be so lucky.
Ferrari Classiche, will do swell resto jobs, as any of the world famous ones, to the best (?) of their knowlewdge? Perfect? Blue or red?
PB winners are the prime examples. Go talk to Corrado Lopresto.
If you manage to understand this video, you may understand the 'ethos' of restoration.

 

Partially ignorant, is a better description. Even Einstein was. Don't forget Forghieri and his praise.

Piero Lardi Ferrari, has better things to do.

You actually know People, or 'of poeople' ? As in reputable sources? Anyhow, Is Ferrari Classiche infallible? Is their restoration perfect as, say the man that built your Patek Philippe
wristwatch, and is restoring it back to when "he built it"?

 

Regrets, duplicate posts. Misspelling included. Ooops.

 

See Dyke, now it all starts making sense.
With experience and expertise like Steve's at their disposal, no wonder so many Classiche restorations turn out the way they do, even or perhaps especially whenever he questions any of the details in the final results.

 

Steve, "period correct" in the US means there might be some modifications, but they would be modifications that were available (and presumably used) at the time.

It's sometimes an actual claim of upgrade, but often used as an excuse for some dodgy "upgrade."

 

Thank you for your reply, Ted.

Hartley Jr can not in this case be using the words "period correct" with the same meaning. They actually use the words "totally period correct in every detail....." Please read the full sentence/paragraph from his 250 GTO 3589 brochure below in which "period correct" is used, which is in the context of 3589 achieving Red Book Classiche Certification:

"Extensive research was carried out to ensure the restoration was totally period correct in every detail and the car today retains its original chassis, body, engine and gearbox, as confirmed by its Ferrari ‘Red Book’ Classiche certification."

If 3589 was just "period correct" as in with modifications it would not, as I am sure you know, qualify for Red Book Certification and would be eligible for White Book Classiche Certification as a Car of Historic Interest, as was in the case of 250 GTO 4153. To qualify for Ferrari Red Book Classiche Certification a Ferrari has to be exactly as it left the factory and not with modifications.

Hartley Jr 250 GTO 3589 web brochure in link here.

 

When a vendor of a car makes the claim and/or statement that a car they are selling, or that they have sold is totally period correct in every detail, then it is the vendor who is liable to the buyer for any issue or discrepancy with that claim/statement, not the restorer.

 

Dyke, the ONLY way you can be certain of a 1000% perfect restoration, is being there, supervising every single screw (ing) of the car.
Corrado Lopresto is the perfect example. No matter the make, model, they are perfect. I had the pleasure to meet him, and his formula is very simple,
supervised perfection, same as Nino Epifani used to.

As I restore my cars, I go through every item and issue, bar none. The only imperfections are the ones where you would require an industrial endeavour
to remake a $2 part.

There, I admit full defeat. Ferrari Classiche, do as they please, and a slew of other restorers, likewise. What the eyes do not see, the heart does not feel. The wallet...ahhh, the wallet.

It has required 20+ years to accumulate 99 +/- % of the parts, required to restore my Montreal. Clearly, modern pistons (cheat).

Regards, Alberto

 

Objectivity without prejudice. Fully understandable, considering the ghastly treatment proffered by Mr. Tom Hartley.

Luck on future goals!