F12 or 812 Dilemma

My 812 experience is limited, coming up on 40k F12 miles, but my understanding is that they are really the other way around: the F12 is more tail happy while the 812 has a lot more programming to the traction control that makes it smoother and more planted.

 

While I'd also say the 812 is more predictable and easier, I'd argue it's not (only?) due to artificial electronics trickery - the 812 has rear wheel steering, which is really a big difference allowing for smoother cornering.
Disclaimer: I only have a few km driving of both, but on road and track.

 

I have 7,000 miles in an F12. I have never driven an 812. The F12 is very comfortable and an absolute joy to drive. It is the perfect road trip car in my mind. I have also tracked it and its a wild beast. Best of both worlds.

The steering rack is light though. I would not call it nervous by any stretch. It may take some getting used to depending on what you are coming from.

The only nervous part is the enormous amount of power at your disposal. The traction control will not reign it all in so it will step out on you if you mash the fun peddle. This is part of the experience in my mind.

There are some great threads on here about about the 812. I hear that it is more refined but also still wild. It may have better creature comforts being newer and all.

Long story short, you cannot go wrong here.

 

any car can be nervous (handling wise) depending on suspension set up and tire choice

the 812 benefits from advances in SSC (side slip control) over the F12

and, if you put either car in 'wet' mode the result will be very civil and composed driving

both are big cars, so either on narrow country lanes could present its own issues...

 

I would also recommend checking out "TheCarGuysTV" YouTube channel. They've reviewed and compared these cars and they live in the UK so the "road" commentary will probable be very applicable. One of the guys owns and has owned many Ferraris so it's not just another influencer channel. They've also compared/contrasted the cars to the DBS Superleggera and Continental GT, on which they have also done reviews. Top notch YouTube channel.

 

I've driven both but own the F12. Per my taste, the F12 wins hands down in looks. And for me, the 812's 4WS felt a bit awkward in the way it transferred weight when going thru moderate to high speed curves. The F12 has no 4WS and thus doesn't produce this unsettling feeling. F12 all the way.

 

Have to disagree on the looks comment as the front and especially the grill of the F12 is pretty bad. The 812 is much sexier from all angles. But I do agree about the RWS... I have a couple cars with RWS and it either isn't noticeable at all or it just makes it weird.... however, I haven't driven an 812 yet. Being such a long and big car, I can completely see that you're most likely very correct about it creating an odd weight transfer.

 

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but I just read that ^^^

 

Did about 10k miles in each. Here's my quick comparison.
F12 is more of grand tourer, whereas 812 is sharper, faster, and revs higher.
812 has more aggressive transmission programming, especially with CTF off. It hits you when you upshift.
Rear-wheel steering is noticeable, both at low and high speeds.
812 has better traction, but with CTF off, it's like F12 in sport mode. F12 is more nervous by default.
F12 sounds slightly better to me, but it's a minor difference.
I like the 812 interior better. Just overall nicer and higher quality.
Can't really go wrong with either. F12 has nicer design to my eye.

 

I have/ had both. Your write up is perfect/ accurate. Both great cars. 812 better.

 

I’ve never driven an F12 but I own an 812 in the UK and Grand Tourer it is not. Racer mode yes, GT no. It’s fairly rough riding over broken crappy British roads and is a pretty intimidating car to drive. It feels massive and like it might kill you at any time. It is unbelievably fast. I drove about 300 miles in mine today, mostly a and b roads and while it was incredibly fun and exciting, I’m exhausted. I absolutely love it, but it’s more of a super car than a GT.

 

Ryan Alexander and Sean Alexander (no relation ) today at cars and coffee:

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Stunning Ryan.

 

I sold my F12 a few years ago and regretted it almost immediately. I was fortunate to just purchase an 812 SF, and hope to comment at a later date on the difference between the two. As far as the Exterior, that is subjective, from some angles I still find the F12 to be prettier. The interior on the other hand I feel the 812 feels a bit newer (think 458 vs 488/F8). I cannot wait for delivery.

 

Good luck! I hope you like it and it works for you well.

 

I think the key thing, no matter your choice, is to get new Michelin MPS4S tires. That will help with ride quality issues. The 812 is a bit more firmly sprung than the F12. The 812 is a bit further along the spectrum in taking a front engined car as far as you can to get it to behave like a supercar. The 812 at times can almost feel mid engined. The F12 still feels front engined. The 812 is the first time they did electric power steering assist, and I find its interaction with the also updated (when new) new rear steer system to be a little weird in certain circumstances, most people don't seem to notice or care, but you might be someone who is sensitive to this, as I am. All of this was resolved with the 812 GTS. The F12 suspension can be upset with repeating road undulations, if you have those, the car can start to porpoise, the only thing you can do is to slow your progress, annoying in a car that is supposed to be fast. The 812SF has more aural drama, so if you will enjoy getting on the throttle and shifting gears under full load, it's more dramatic than the F12.


I think the F12 is a bit closer to what you are describing for your use- but I also think you should go test drive them. If either car has Pirelli tires you should try to imagine if the car rode better. For whatever reason the Pirelli tires on these cars feel like they dont ever fully "breathe" with the road, rather, they feel like they are (Im being overly dramatic to make a point) bouncing off the road. Again, probably depends on how sensitive you are to such things.

For either car, getting correct tires, and making sure they are warm before you have any fun is super critical.

 

100%. I've driven both F12 and F12tdf on Pirelli's, which I'd describe as borderline dangerous if/when driving aggressively, which of course is entire point of these cars. This completely goes away with MPS4S's - true night and day difference. I've never driven 812SF on Pirelli's but certain effect is exactly the same.

To me 812SF is Supercar disguised as GT, whereas, F12 is GT with Supercar capabilities. As I prefer the Dr Jekyl Mr Hyde personality of F12, which results in greater/wider versatility, for me the F12 is the better choice of the two. That it looks better to my eyes is a wonderful bonus.

 

Totally agree about the tire swap. Finally, after three years of replacing my Pirelli rears on the 812SF, I decided to change to the PS4S as per many other threads I have read. They always said that the PS4S were superior. I am happy to report that you were all correct. The best way I can describe it is that the Pirelli under hard acceleration from a stop would hop and fight to put the power down. The PS4S, from a stop, had a controllable slide all the while keeping the power down on the ground. Even in second or third gear where the Pirelli would make me **** my pants, the PS4S, again controllable and predictable to a point. Best "mod" lol.

 

100% when I changed from the Cast Wheels and Pirelli to the Forged Wheels and the Michelin tires, my F12 was transformed. Unfortunately, the 812 I am purchasing has the Pirelli and Cast Wheels (can't see to get away from these wheels) and going to buy a set of the Forged Wheels with the MPS4S.

 

Even 30 years ago, Pirellis were incompatible with performance driving, Michelins were always better. I have re-tried Pirellis every once a while for performance driving, and they became worse. If performance driving is your goal, anything but Pirellis would be recommended.

 

I generally agree, but I have to say some Pirelli Corsa and also their SottoZero winter tires are pretty good, but I tend to like Michelin better.

 

For me the Corsas are the worst road tyres. They have such a narrow operating temperature, too cold and they are so hard they are dangerous, too hot and melt. Get them in the zone and they are amazing but the zone is very narrow. In cool temperatures and normal driving I couldn't get them up to temperature and they were horrible. I have normal p-zeros on my 812. They are sketchy until I get them to 30 degrees centigrade then they are ok in fairness. The p zeroes have lots of life in them but I can't wait to put PS4Ss on there, they perform well from much lower temperatures. Best tyre ever.

 

The 812 makes the f12 feel like a work in progress. More feel, more car like, much better turn in and agility, and not so dead through the dampers. Not as mental as the f12 but still a monster and much happier doing normal driving. No contest. Same glassy numb steering on both though sadly.