Purosangue Market Values

There was supposed to be a 60k increase for the 2nd round of orders but they confirmed I would see the lower price because the order was placed so early. We shall see.

 

The other thing, I’m not ordering a car without having a locked in price. Let’s see how that conversation goes.

 

Has there ever been a locked in price upon ordering?

 

I don’t know, but if that’s a no then I’m out. I walked away from the stick shift Pagani Utopia roadster order because I thought the terms were ridiculous, €1 million down three years before delivery, no sale for two years or triple the profits to Pagani, etc. etc. I told them what I’d be willing to do (€300k deposit and no sale for 1 year) and they said no and I said buh bye.

 

Same for the W1, they wanted 700k and wait 2 years or so. I was close but backed out.

 

Mine is supposed to be other than the 5% tariff.

 

yeah it's ****, when you factor in what you're using when taking that kind of deposit out of investments over 3 years it means you're instantly out of pocket

the Utoptia is super nice though for sure, I think the styling will age well

 

You guys are saying what needs to be said, Thanks. Help me with this...What will happen to the values of 296VS's (speciale)....assuming they produce around the same number as they did with Pista?

 

Hard to say but as I see it, more likely to hold up fairly well than not. On the negative side is its hybrid and all the stuff that comes along with that. On the positive side, if numbers are similar to Pista, then Id say the addressable market on the Speciale is probably larger than when Pista came out so more demand….

 

It’s going to depreciate, the starting point is around double the price of a speciale when new. The v6 hybrid just isn’t beloved. The car is a rocket but doesn’t stir emotions, and as the very savvy Caeruleus11 said himself, the drives in these cars aren’t memorable.

 

The opportunity cost is massive of holding big cars, even in municipal bonds, the after tax yields are 5%, so 3 years of deposit at €1m is $165,000. Then add another $3m once you have bought the car, it is costing you $250,000 a year in carry cost, insurance and maintenance and if it depreciates, add that too. So assuming you hold the car for 3 years, it owes you $1m gain AFTER tax just to break even. The numbers are tough.

 

its likely that the 296 Speciale coupe will be in the mid-$500s. Start price will be $440-$450. Mid $500s is in the same price range as a 458S and a Pista. Will the car still lose value if its priced in the $500s all in?

(Side note, listening to a Jonathan Ward/ Icon discuss his Bronco EV...$450k. The world has gone wacky)

 

Interesting. Never really looked seriously at a new Pagani. Always thought it would be better to purchase new rather than used because used market is really high. However, it appears that used really takes a depreciation hit in spite of the apparent appreciation in value…

 

well done!

 

Now 29 PS for sale on cars.com, cheapest car at Ferrari of San Antonio can be bought in the high 4s. It has 11,000 miles.

Delivery mile cars asking mid 5s, am assuming can actually be bought substantially lower.

Once it’s widely accepted these cars are depreciating even faster than SF90s I think the decline is going to accelerate.

 

I have a dumb question regarding depreciation.

I’ve always heard that any car depreciates 10% or more as soon as it is driven off the lot. That is with delivery miles, essentially. Generally true across the board, I’ve always believed. Now for some cars, in the very beginning, a new can be sold over MSRP when demand is really high and low supply (A few years ago, I could have sold my new F250 for over MSRP the day it came in, for instance). But generally speaking, isn’t it typical to expect 20% - 40% depreciation for luxury cars? I’ve never had a BMW, Mercedes or Lexus hold its value. Rolls Royce, Bentley, etc also have drastically lower prices on secondary market.

In Ferrari world, haven’t the four seater V12’s depreciated at a higher rate than the 2 doors (percentage wise?)

For me, moving from Chevrolets and Fords to Mercedes was a huge shock because the dollar amount was so high. But percentage wise, not much different. Is part of the dismay regarding new Ferraris just simply because they have become so expensive that the dollar amount is so high that it is hard to swallow?

I really don’t know the answer. But at some point, the actual dollar amount becomes too high for a person to be able to justify, even if it is the same trend percentage wise.

 

Losing money on a $100k cayenne or Mercedes GLS is one thing, but a similar SUV in terms of looks and performance that cost $600,000 continues to make no sense to me. Yes I know V12 blah blah, my 2014 GL63 has a 5.5 liter V8 and continues to be one of the best cars I have ever owned (from new) and it’s probably worth $25k. Let that sink in for a minute.

 

I feel the same way about my bentayga. might be worth $50k now and it really is amazing. yeah I'm very likely passing on the puro for now. wasnt blown away.

 

Puro is an incredible car, at an incredible price. Which of those proves to be ultimately the strongest influence is more difficult to tell. Of course, price will be more influential if you’re looking for an investment - which this car isn’t - but if you’re looking for a luxury product at a ‘fair’ luxury price, maybe how good the car is could make sense of the price over the long term. This is not the car to buy and put away, nor is it probably the car to put a ton of options on (like we did). The options we chose make the car a sensation but it’s just so hard to justify the price, especially if it loses 50% in 3 years. The best I can hope for is 10k miles in 3-5 years and 7% depreciation pa (means 35% loss over 5 years). If it achieved that it might be a great car to have around. 15% pa and it would be hard to conclude the price/ownership experience ratio is good enough. Having said that, a 5 year old Puro at 30% of retail with 10k miles sounds like an absolute bargain. In which case I would hang on to it!

 

We typically keep our cars 5 years or longer. Don’t necessarily put a lot of miles on any single car, mostly because we have too many. My thought is that the Puro will be a keeper and driver. So residual value is unimportant to me. I always imagine taking big road trips in these cars but the reality is that we need a bit more room than even the 812 provides.

 

This tells me a few of things:
1) The dealers dont want the car back or at least unwilling to pay enough for the buyer to recoup what they spent
2) Dealer sold to anyone because these people dont care about breaking any rules
3) No money to be made in resale
4) People dont care about their status anymore

 

Yes to all and I think this applies to most of the others cars, certainly 296 and SF90 too. I’m happy to nuke my status without any regrets. Can’t wait for the call to be told I have been “allocated” the all electric car.

 

In Europe, a Purosangue is extremely popular and is traded well above list price, a naturally aspirated V12 with a good sound is very popular and rare. Especially as the successor will have a hybrid.

 

I also plan to drive my Puro and hold it for a 3 to 5 year period. My take: it will be a blast to take the family of 4 in a Ferrari as a daily and you have to pay to play.

 

Are the dealers still taking new orders for PS? I just put down my deposit end of last year, probably look at taking delivery into 27. Since I wouldn’t buy their EV, this might be the last time to see a 4 seater v12 F car