A/C Diagnosis Help | FerrariChat

A/C Diagnosis Help

Discussion in '308/328' started by jsumnertx, May 18, 2025 at 5:52 PM.

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  1. jsumnertx

    jsumnertx Karting

    Dec 9, 2004
    159
    Austin
    I've gotten partway through diagnosing my A/C not working and before going down the rabbit hole further, I'd love a little advice on the next steps I'm taking. Before I loosen the airbox, there might be other things I can check.

    Background
    1979 308 GTS I've owned for 28 years
    Used R12 until 2020 and was converted to R134a by my mechanic with 1.6 lbs of R134a
    The conversion was just a new dryer and adding adapter ports to the compressor. Did not change compressor or fittings as far as I can tell

    It has, at times, blown cold air so I know the system can work. But it doesn't work for long, which screams a leak.
    In September 2021, my mechanic recharged the system for low R134a and did a leak check but didn't find anything. Evacuated system and added 1.76 lbs.
    In July 2024, my mechanic saw low pressure, recovered the R134a and it was almost out but passed vacuum. He added dye, evacuated the system, and added 1.78 lbs.

    So that brings me to today. I figure if the system is this finicky, I should just learn to fix the damn thing myself so I got a setup from HF of gauges, dye, vacuum pump, blacklight flashlight, and R134a.

    Then the fun began as the true consequences of the R12->R134a port adapters became clear. I couldn't access the low-side port from the top and I can't access the high side port at all. But here we go down the rabbit hole

    Car is currently on my lift with the wheel and wheelwell cover off.

    First check - any charge in the system at all
    I could get the low side port attached by dropping it from the top of the engine and attaching it from underneath.
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    Car is off, ambient temperature is 93 degrees. Connected it with all of the valves off and then opened the valve at the compressor and got 104psi. Since the car isn't running, that's total system pressure not low side pressure. I think that tells me there is a reasonable charge in the system.

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    So next step - is the clutch working

    With the car off, I could rotate the clutch by hand.
    Then I put a thermometer in the vents. It showed 93.7F.
    Then I started the car, put the A/C coldness setting to the middle, turned the fans on high

    Checked under the car and I could see the clutch plate turning with the belt. So the clutch seems to be engaged.

    Then checked the radiator fan - it was running

    Outlet temp after a few minutes , 90 degrees
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    Ok, what about low side pressure

    While running low side pressure started at 30.5 psi and dropped to 28 after a few minutes. That's definitely low. This chart says I should be seeing around 50 psi.


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    I tried to check the high side pressure. Problem is that the high side port interferes with the airbox inlet.

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    I thought removing the air intake rubber hose would do it, but still interfered. I can't yank the airbox to the side enough for the coupler to clear the corner of the airbox. So removed the airbox cover and realized I need to loosen those 16 nuts holding on the carb trumpets, and realized I could loosen 12 of them but don't have a tool to loosen the back 4. So I'm ordering one of the 8mm gearwrench ratcheting flex-head combo wrenches. (I have a ratcheting wrench, but it doesn't have a swivel)

    So a few points of advice would be helpful

    1) Would a low charge alone (28psi vs 50 psi) be enough to have the system essentially not functional and give only a 3 degree drop from ambient (93 ambient -> 90 degrees vent temp)

    2) System obviously has a leak so tonight when it's dark I'm going to take a look around for some dye around the dryer area, the compressor fittings and clutch, and the condenser in the grille. Anywhere else I should check?

    3) If I can't find any dye indicating the leak, my sense is to get a high side reading which means dealing with this damn interference. Is that the right thing to do next? My plan is to loosen the carb trumpet nuts and hope the airbox will then be able to be shifted. For those who have done this, will it shift or do I need to actually remove it? I've never removed the airbox myself and would prefer not to risk dropping washers down the carbs. It looks like that port could potentially be swiveled but its a tight enough space that it might require removing the airbox to do that and I'm not sure about loosening the fitting while the system is pressurized.

    4) Anything else to check before getting a high side reading?



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  2. 26street

    26street Formula Junior

    Jan 30, 2021
    437
    Westchester New York
    Full Name:
    Mark k
    sounds like the system is working right, for the high side reading see if a local A/C shop that can make you a small extension hose with r12 female and r134a male,
    if not do you have a laser temp reader just check the condenser it should be around 200 to 300 degrees depending.

    another thing is the compressor oil needs to be PAG 134a, r12 oil does not work well, also it is recommended that all o rings seals and hoses be replace because the rubber used for r12 will leak 134a (hoses in 134a system have a plastic inner liner), trying to chase a leak on a converted system is a nightmare i have found on some it was the Schrader valve and because you have the gauges on you will never find it.

    running new hoses and replacing seals can take money and time, way more than a few cans of 134a every season
     
  3. detroiter

    detroiter Karting

    Apr 30, 2013
    194
    Munich, Bayern
    Full Name:
    Carter
    Well, you definitely need to get the high side on, in order to diagnose any pressure issues. Removing the Airbox nuts is easy with a 1/4" ratchet and extension (or deep well socket).
    The conventional wisdom says that R12 hoses will always lose the 134a gas, since the molecules are small enough to permeate the hose wall. Switching to 134a without changing the hoses to barrier hoses means you will always be recharging the system at some point.

    (I have my passenger gas tank out right now for a different issue, so I deciced now's a good time to run new AC hoses in the passenger side sill up to the front of the car. The other hoses at the front of the car are super easy to get to and change.)
     
  4. ferrariowner

    ferrariowner Formula 3

    Feb 21, 2014
    1,140
    Mansfield, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron
    If you have the original AC hoses, I think you will find they have a permeability issue and will leak freon. I recommend the hoses from Vintage Air.
     
  5. Imatk

    Imatk Formula Junior

    May 6, 2007
    701
    Agreed with the folks above. I've gone through this with adding a whole new system to the car.

    It's so INCREDIBLY easy to have a leak. One little o-ring can do it. Old hoses... definitely would do it.

    You could have a leak in the evaporator... I doubt it... but it's possible. And if its leaking from there I don't think dye will help you out.

    If it were me (and it was) I would yank that York compressor out of there, put in a Sanden that doesn't weigh a ton like the OG one and run all new lines.

    You can even replace the switch (if you like) to a new-style switch and ditch the capillary switch as well... but if the switches work then no reason to.

    If you REALLY don't think you have a leak, pull vacuum and leave it pulled overnight.

    If you still have vacuum in the morning (at the same place) then you don't have a leak.
     
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  6. Sergio Tavares

    Sergio Tavares Formula 3

    Nov 15, 2018
    1,227
    Full Name:
    Sergio Tavares
    So next step - is the clutch working

    With the car off, I could rotate the clutch by hand.

    Then I put a thermometer in the vents. It showed 93.7F.
    Then I started the car, put the A/C coldness setting to the middle, turned the fans on high
    Checked under the car and.....


    but do you hear the CLUNK when AC cltch engagaes or disengages?;

    If there is a belt to engine on AC clutch, HOW were you able to rotate it?
    When you apply 12V to clutch wire does it make a big sound?
     
    Imatk likes this.
  7. Imatk

    Imatk Formula Junior

    May 6, 2007
    701
    Yep you should hear it clicking.
     
  8. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
    Owner

    Jun 11, 2004
    11,177
    CT
    Full Name:
    John Kreskovsky
    Guys, I think you are missing something. He said in post #1 that he has 104 psi static pressure. That would indicate a sufficient charge. The system may leak over time but that does not appear to be the issue. He then said after starting the AC the low side pressure was 28 psi. That's too low and would indicate things like a bad compressor, bad TX valve, or some kind of blockage on the high side. It also indicates that the compressor is "trying" so not a clutch issue. Need to know what the high side pressure it. If it's in the ball park it would say the compressor is ok and probably one of the other issues. But even with a low side of 28 psi it seems odd that he is not getting any cooling.
     
  9. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    388
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    The static pressure does look ok. Suggests a gas temp of around 31 deg C. Was this similar to the air temperature around the system?
    There is a gauze strainer on the expansion valve inlet.
    Chances are that this will be partially blocked if its never been cleaned.
    Mine was full of crud that caused erratic cooling.
    With the static pressure you have, If the system is working at 28 psi suction pressure, the condenser fans are running and the compressor suction line is not cold I would check this gauze strainer.
     
  10. jsumnertx

    jsumnertx Karting

    Dec 9, 2004
    159
    Austin
    Thanks for the tips and suggestions so far. I got in touch with Old Air Products and ordered some 90 degree connectors that may allow me to extend the high side and low side ports to make them easier to get to. Depending on when they arrive I’ll either use them to get a high side reading or will take off the airbox. Good suggestion on that strainer.

    @Freddie328 - the ambient was 93F/34C when I measured the system pressure

    tonight I did a UV check. Found a dusting at the fittings by the dryer - maybe a small leak or some escape up there. Same with at the connector to the front radiator.

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    There was a bunch on the low side port but suspect that was from connecting/disconnecting the gauges so I’ll clean it off well and then recheck after it’s been cleaned but before I connect a gauge set. There’s an odd chance that there is some leakage between the compressor and the low side port adapter. There was none on the high side.

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  11. Freddie328

    Freddie328 Formula Junior

    Jul 29, 2013
    388
    Herts, UK
    Full Name:
    Richard
    The static pressure/temp balances with the air temp, so you have enough refrigerant in the system for the system to provide some cooling. And the low pressure when operating confirms this.
    In one of your pictures you show a sight glass in the top of the receiver. This is a service aid to determine that the system is adequately charged and therefore feeding the expansion valve with liquid refrigerant. When you run the system is this sight glass either completely clear and full of clear liquid, frothing with white bubbles, or is there just what appears to be gas passing through it. Also, is the compressor suction line cold, or not, when running the system. These two indicators can you tell you a lot about what is going on, and whether you have a blockage or loss of gas. The condenser fans should be running almost constantly @ 34c on these cars, when the vehicle is at rest.. If not, the system is not rejecting heat, therefore not cooling properly. Another pointer as to whats going on.
     

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