Current Engine Out Costs

Just back to my question...is there anywhere where Ferrari themselves have said what the workshop time is for an engine-out out cambelt service is? Id really appreciate it if someone can provide some documentation.

 

Refer to post 14.

 

Post #14 does not answer my question????? I'm not asking whether people agree with the published book times - I just want to know what they are?

Apologies, if I'm not making myself clear - I'm just looking for something saying.... Removal and replacement of cambelt....xx hours

 

Check out KennyG's video on checking cam timing after a belt swap. Specifically between 13 and 24 minutes. He takes it apart and puts it back together exactly as it was with new belts. Of course, you have to assume the timing was correct when the old belts were new in the first place.

 

I am not sure if it is listed by Ferrari with official exact number of hours involved, but I believe it to be in the 40 hour range (which includes removal and reinstall)

 

The reality is the vast majority of cars I do a major on was not done by me last time. If I was not the last person to time it I will not be responsible for it this time unless I time it.

 

You sure aren't. For a 355 you do not own which is the model being spoken of? Or would you prefer information for your 348?

 

I'm after the (hopefully published) book time from Ferrari for an engine-out cambelt service for a 348

 

Precisely. If the timing is already right there absolutely f-all need to retime the engine when doing a belt job. For some reason some folks just don't seem to get that.
I replaced the belts twice on my 550 since purchasing it. The timing was supposedly done by a Ferrari dealership prior to my purchase and they left paint marks on relevant places (pulleys etc). I aligned everything on the marks, especially useful after replacing lower cam drive bearings, without the need to retime the cams. The engine runs 100% the same.
A pro mechanic is right to want to time the cams if he doesn't trust the provenance of the customer car he is working on, but claiming or even indirectly suggesting that timing the engine is needed each time the belts are replaced (without taking the heads off) is nonsense.

 

Belts and fluids last year I paid 6500 wholesale. I'd say about 7-8k is normal

 

I guess this was what I was trying to say - and exactly what I would want a mechanic to do.

From what I have been told, the difference between "spot on" and "good enough" cam timing is a noticeable amount of low-end power, something the F355 can scarcely afford to give up.

 

I think everyone gets it .

If belts are being changed by the same competent tech that established the cam timing, sure.

On the other hand, supposedly done by Ferrari and lining up paint marks isn't good enough for me. (why are there even paint marks?)

 

Contact Autotechnick on Youtube.

 

Usually the hall mark of an idiot and a sure sign it needs to be done correctly. Doing a 360 right now. Prior belts done at dealer, cams all out of time and none of the updates have been done. Dealer service its entire life. People seem to think the logo on your work shirt has some effect on the quality of your work. .

 

... Because it's all that's needed when the engine was previously timed correctly. No need to overthink it.

 

Gents - FWIW - I wanted to provide another data point: If only changing belts (i.e. all other elements are deemed to be in good order), Roselli in San Jose, CA pulls the gas tank to access the engine (total cost is well under $10k).

 

Thank you for the warning, as I will advise everyone I know to stay clear of this shop.

 

Do they need to lube the fly wheel every engine out?

 

You cannot properly do a timing belt job without removing the cam covers to properly set timing, especially important on the 355 as it is one of the most sensitive to camshaft timing.

 

No they don’t “ need “ .
Pulling the pumpkin off and Attending to any work eg seals , clutch , and indeed flywheel can all be done with the engine in situ .

Obviously pumpkin work can be done also if the engines been pulled and now sat conveniently on a trolley as well …..if there is a “ need “

The threads ( if I understand it ? ) is concerned about the timing belt apparatus situated at the forward ( bulkhead ) end of the engine .Do remember the engine was designed to be periodically dropped for this .

Eg dropping a 488, 458 , even a 550 engine is a far more huge Labour absorbing exercise .

I don’t know why newbies to Ferrari fret over Testarossa, 512 , 348 , 355 cam belt jobs .

Personally I think it’s a great idea well designed in from the get go .

Plenty of McLarens and Porsches end up with surprise engine drops from various reasons …..who’s labour bill makes Ferrari engine drops , ( those designed) seem like chicken feed .

 

Why? Why would they bother dropping the subframe when all the car needs is new timing belts?

Yes you can, again if the cam timing is already set correctly, because this does not go out of tune between two belts changes.

 

Set correctly based on what? The rumor it was done by someone competent? If you're a tech you want your stamp of approval on that?

 

Before I start let me say I'm not on one side or the other when it comes to checking timing or lock and swap. Do what you feel is best for your comfort. That said this is what I get from this discussion....

Why is it that every other tech but "your favorite" is incompetent and can't set the timing correctly? That surely seems to be the attitude around here. So if that's what you believe then I would assume that when you bought your car, no matter when the last service was done, you immediately upon possession had the engine dropped to check the cam timing. You didn't do that, right? Thus, it would seem you drove the car for 1, 2, 5, 7 or however many years and miles with "questionable" cam timing. So if the car you bought had a major in preparation for the sale, (for which you paid a premium) or a year or two before the sale, you just drove the piss out of it and never gave a thought to the cam timing. But come time for a major it's absolutely imperative to check the timing because it was probably off for the last X years because the last guy to work on it was an idiot. It's amazing how any of these car survived for 30 years.

 

Listen you. Get out of here with your logic and well-reasoned argument...

It's 'handbags at dawn' and 'willy-waving' only in this thread.

Anyone that spends less than the value of the car in a major service is clearly just skimping on costs...

 

The divide here is simple. It is between the theorizers like you that only talk about it and those of us who do it every day and produce consistently good outcomes and understand what typically rolls in the shop and have to stand behind our work. We know full well the reality how few cars are living up to their potential because the low standards being applied. You are happy to live in that world? Knock yourself out. Its not the level my clients pay for. The stories of burned up cats, ingested precats, cracked headers and check engine lights are not plaguing our clients.