296 VS

It is quite well summarized... There are also other parameters that contribute to the annual bonus, such as event services, the revenue from spare parts...

 

From what I understand:

Limited cars vary on how allocation works as well as who decides. In the case of the 812 Comp cars, the factory chose. In the case of the F80, the factory chose. For the SF90XX you needed to have an SF to qualify, the dealers were sent a list of which customers qualified and the dealer chose off that list. For the VS, they dealer can select who can purchase the GTB, for the GTS, the factory sends over a list of who qualifies and the dealers can select only from that list.

As for additional allocation from the factory post the initial offering, this is super limited. For the GTS there will probably not be any additional allocation at all, as it will be a super short run, from what I understand 1,000 cars in total (same numbers as the 812 Competizione). For the GTB, they factory might have some they held back to release later at dealer requests to keep important clients happy.

 

What Enzo just said sounds right. That is what Ferrari did with Pista. Pistas were all sold, towards the very end of the run I was told Ferrari did create a small number of additional Pistas for their best dealers/ clients. These were the super high spec cars.

Please do remember that the Ferrari EV is coming next year and that will certainly be on most everyones 'must buy' list if they want to keep playing the game. There is also the 296 2.0 and the Roma 2.0. Point being, there is a ton of pent up demand for the non-VS cars. Even more so with any model refresh as folks tend to upgrade.

IMO, Ferrari is going to intentionally make the Speciale a home run product and 'investment' rewarding their best clients. The most recent market cycle has shaken the brand and confidence of the buyers. This generation of Ferraris are perhaps best Ferraris ever and yet they depreciated like never before.

The natural competitor will be the Porsche GT2RS. Ugly as it will be, the GT2RS will be a monster that the Speciale is going to have to tame.

Still hoping to learn the US MSRP of the Speciale.

 

I saw ONE video so I know exactly what is going on with Ferrari... they are going to devalue the brand significantly in the upcoming years. I saw Schmee driving to the Ferrari factory and pointing out the old building and the Construction on the new ones. Those buildings were freaking MASSIVE, and he said something to the effect of one area being for the electric Car. So Ferrari jumped on that band wagon obviously well before this backlash against EVs, and is going to get trounced because no one wants a hyper expensive EV... The Lotus has 2000Hp and nobody cares.

So just from the fact that they are building a massive new building and upgrading all aspects they are going to have to start selling a sh#$-ton more Cars and to a broader Customers base. Yes they will still have the Hyper Car segment for the very rich, and the killer Cars like the 296, but they will devalue quickly as they have done and keep doing so because they will over-produce most models. I mean they can't change what you are seeing happening now and they have to continue down that road when you are building out your manufacturing HQ.

So the lower level money guys won't want to be in the pay to play pool so much anymore as the EVs and such come out. Then when they sell a ton of lower end Purosangue copies to everyone their Brand will lose a little shine but sell more cars. I don't see them losing money at all necessarily, but when there are tons of Ferraris around that aren't really all that special they'll be more like a Mercedes.. but be making bank in a different way.

 

Have you ever studied the Hermes business model? Perhaps you should. Ferrari has.

 

imagine watching a video with the most annoying person on the internet and think you have gleaned valuable information about Ferrari's business model.

 

His source is not ideal. But his conclusions are not wrong. It's a fact that recent general release Ferraris have performed horribly from a financial perspective. The underlying causes of that (over production, hybridization and lackluster design) are not expected to change (can we fire Manzoni already?). Expect the Purosangue to plummet too when more cars hit the market and/or a V6 or V8 Turbo Purosangue becomes available in greater numbers. It's also a fact that Ferrari will make an EV and many customers will feel compelled to buy it and then lose their shirts when they sell for 50% of MSRP (is there any reason to expect they wont?). Production volumes are only going in one direction in order to appease Wall Street. Don't worry, Ferrari will make bank. It's the customers who suffer, and more specifically anyone who is not a Top. Ferrari will pump out as many 296 Speciales as they can muster because that is the new business model. The old mantra of making "one less than the market demands" has given way to "as many as we can produce during the production run".

Does this take the shine off the brand? Maybe a little. Ferraris are still cars that people aspire to own and that's not going to change. Does this change the "Hermes" business model? Not at all. The game will always be there because Ferrari understands that they do need to make some very limited models as it's even more important today to inspire customers even further when they are taking it in the shorts on their mass produced general release cars.

Where Ferrari did screw up was in charging all the money for a questionable looking V6 hyper car. I'm sure that took the wind out of the sails of many VIPs. More than the over production and more than the plummeting values, the one thing Ferrari has done in the last decade to hurt the brand more than any other is the F80. You might put up with losses on a few cars and the sub par designs if you knew that the light at the end of the tunnel was a masterpiece that will instantly be worth double what you paid for it. But they screwed the pooch with the F80.

 

Maybe coming back to the actual car: If you select all the carbon options from the configurator, it seems that you get a weird mix of glossy carbon (steering wheel, center console, seats) and matte carbon (door panel, floor, backside).
Does anybody have good pictures from the launch cars to see whether this looks odd? Configurator and press photos unfortunately are very dark and it is difficult to see properly.


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it looks a little odd in parts (like the dashboard inserts option is gloss, but the lower dash carbon option is matt) you can tell if your looking for it, but honestly in person it’s not too obvious.

They did it in a few parts where gloss is adjacent to matt (like the tunnel) I guess if anything it adds a bit of contrast and breaks up the parts a bit.
See the pics I posted a few pages back for interior shots. The vast majority of carbon is matt.
,

 

or that Ferrari can't repurpose such an insignificant investment in the big scheme of things, that building is just a bleep on their radar.

 

I called it a long time ago tbh, I think what will happen is they will milk the top end as much as possible price with 'the game' and throw out ltd edition cars etc, as soon as the ltd editions stop selling for overs they'll start to increase capacity and lower prices of base models

 

Model walking by dressed to kill, men turn to catch a glimpse, imagine.
Limited edition Ferrari, that's the model. Don't over think, it's a want.
There are more people wanting a Ferrari - every day not less.

 

that's true but there's maths at play here also - if you lose £150k on your 296 to get your spec which (with full options to make your dealer happy) is also trading for £100k under list and then you're told for any future limited editions you'll have to buy the EV which is also trading at £150k under then that female who's dressed to kill looks slightly less appealing

my prediction is at some point in the next 15 years Ferrari will enter a lower price bracket with a high volume car

 

This is true of all of the cars now. For the most part, CF pieces are in matte to reduce glare in the driver’s eyes. I actually like it, as there is so much carbon that it mixes it up. You can also elect to have all of the CF in matte if you want.

 

Out of curiosity - in your view, is there a "not recent" general production Ferrari that has performed significantly better in the secondary market? 360/430/458 all bottomed out around 50-60% of new MSRP ~8-12 years after launch. A bit worse for 550/575M/599/F12, and way worse for the 2+2s. If the speculated floor for 296 is ~$200k and SF90 is low 300s, that puts them in the same ballpark as everything that came before.

The pandemic models (F8 and 812) seem like the exceptions, not the rule.

 

So much miss information out there that its amazing!

New Production Plant - The new E Building, which I have toured is not E for Electric, i.e. electric cars, its E for Environmental. Ferrari is currently building cars in a part of the factory that was built in 1943, continually retrofitted which is not ideal for a car company that will continue to push technology. So they built a new production line, not to increase production but to increase efficiency. And of course they will focus it on an Environmental play as all new manufacturing plants want to be LEED certified, which this building is. This building also produces batteries which were designed by Ferrari. Batteries at this moment are part of where cars will be for a while. This is not just for the new electric car, but for hybrid cars and their F1 team

Ferrari Electric Car - This is to showcase Ferrari's electric technology, as this is a spring board for not only electric cars, hybrid technology but also Hydrogen in the future. This is important if you want to work on powertrains of the future. The electric car will be launched over a one year period, Q4 2025 introduces the technology, Q2 2026 the interior design, Q4 2026 the full car. This car will be a super limited run. Again, just to showcase technology and Ferrari's ability to translate their ethos into an electric car and new platform. Ferrari knows electric high end cars do not sell, they have no desire to build cars their customers do not want. Their plan is to allow the customer to decide between ICE, Hybrid and Eclectic, they will go where the demand is, visit the factory and listen to the earnings call. Get to know people high up in the company and you will understand the plan.

Hybrid Models - Ferrari still has multiple cars selling over sticker, the F8, Purosangue, I cannot list all models that Ferrari has made or continues to make that are selling over sticker, its an impossible list. Its clear that their customers are not excited about owning hybrids. The 296 might be the best Ferrari made at this moment and possibly the best small mid engine car Ferrari has made in this lineage. But people who own non-daily-drivers want ease and what ICE engine offer, looks like hybrids just do not make for good collectable/ownable/occasional sports cars in peoples mind. I get it, I do not want to plug in my car, and Ferrari gets it as well. This is why the F80 only uses batteries for hybrid driving, not for full electric driving like the 296 or SF90. You trickle charge the F80 with a normal Ferrari trickle charger, just like your regular ICE Ferrari. See, they heard the customer. The F80 will be as easy to own as a non hybrid.

Production - 2000 Ferrari produced 10,000+- cars and in 2025 they will produce 14,000+- with production basically flat over the past 4 Fiscal years. Lets not talk about percentages lets talk about people in the world who have an ability to buy a Ferrari. With an additional 4,000 cars for a population of 8.5 Billion people with about 1.1 Billion considered affluent, its not about production numbers. Its about what people want, non Hybrid offerings (this is why and F8 is over sticker when a 296 is under)

Interest Rates - Keeping it short. We all could borrow against our portfolio for 1.0% 3 years ago, and now its about 5%. So three years ago buying a Ferrari was basically free for affluent people who could borrow against their holdings. This is massively impacting resale as well as there are just fewer people spending what was basically free money IMHO.

The Future - Ferrari will only continue to become more exclusive, that is their plan. They will grow the value of the company on exclusivity, not production numbers. Offering more limited cars and special offerings/events/fashion. Price increase and other metrics will help make the brand more LVMH like in its multiple. So for those who fear production numbers you are wrong. Oh, and there will not be a V6 or hybrid Purosangue. The car will run until 2027 and that's it, a 5 year production timeframe like most of their cars.

 

You have the exact information. Unfortunately, many people make things up. The Ferrari Elettrica will not be the core business of Ferrari like the Urus is for Lamborghini, for example. It will be an addition of technologies to their portfolio and a demonstration to the world that they are capable of developing and producing all types of technologies. As for the rest, I completely agree with what you said.

 

Imagine not seeing IRONY in a statement.... j/k. I was actually being tongue and cheeky by saying I watched ONE video and figured it ALL out. Figured that would be obvious irony since I capitalized the selected words. Of course its hard to translate humor or lack of in my text.....oh well didn't mean to offend anyone.

I won't (can't) ever be a player in that game to obtain Hyper Cars, but I own a 296, which is exactly what I wanted and it is truely, in my opinion, the best value and Car in its class. Yet, it is a model along with others that has tanked significantly in value recently, but I don't care about that either since I bought it a few months ago at the discount pricing, and I bought it to drive and beat on and have fun, not collect. The fact is, regardless of studying Hermes business models and so forth... there is something brewing that is easily recognizeable. You can't over produce models on items that are supposed to be rare and have them hold thier value or prestige, even if they are great. Regardless you don't have to be in the know to see with the SUV, EV and such they are moving into a different direction. Lets give it a decade and revisit my opinion, which doesn't mean squat anyway, and I don't intend it to. Not saying the won't be completely successful, just saying there might be more Ferraris than ever on the streets.... don't know why that offended some.

 

It seems customers being required to purchase cars they don't really want to increase their profile/status and then dumping them; is driving down resale values more than anything else. This seems to be Ferrari's model which was less noticeable with less cars produced. As prices rise, the losses also grow. Some people don't mind/notice others are more affected. As someone who bought a 296 after being impressed with it at CP but really doing it to get the VS, I'm somewhere in the middle. 2 new Ferraris in the last 4 years and keeping the 296 didn't get me an allocation. Not sure I'm all that upset though, the 296 is a phenomenal car which I'm happy to keep.

 

I'm not following this - the issue at hand is the battery which adds weight. plugging in the 296 or SF90 is still using the same 110V (in US) outlet. the only difference is the charger charges the hybrid battery and the 12V battery. I do not see the plugging in to me any inconvenience as had to do the same on the ICE only cars as well.

There are few things that i struggle with:
1) People want a rear-mid engine ICE than why is Ferrari not offering that? We asked for a STO like car and it appears that got shelved.
2) For me, personally whether its a forced induction ICE car like the F8 or 488/Pista or a forced induction ICE+Hybrid like the 296 it makes no difference. (btw 296 is brilliant) they do not sound the same as the older NA cars. the turbos muffle sound and add to that the GPF, its more muted. The stringent regulations are taking away the emotion that came from the Ferrari V8 or V12. Even the 12C sounds muted but a novitec will fix that issue and bring the v12 back to its glory. Ferrari should have kept the NA V8 alive. It's not all about HP wars. offer customers the products and let the customer choose.
3) Is Ferrari hearing the negative sentiments from its customers that their $4M hypercar is a V6? even if it sold out it shows the direction Ferrari is going and that is V6 - sure racing pedigree great, but its a V6 for 4M car that revs to 9.2K. that's what people are struggling to get over. Temarrio on paper at least looks better V8TT 10K rpm. If ferrari was going to push the bounderies of the v6 it should have been some crazy high revving engine that had not been done before ever and that sounded great (at least on the inside of the cabin)

 

Not to be argumentative but not everyone is angry about the F80's V6. If you only read FChat you might think so but I can tell you from first hand experience, from me, who has bought the car, and went to the launch, that I have not heard anyone on the list I know angry about the powerplant. I do not want a V12, I am super impressed with the engineering of the V6 and the whole overall approach to how the car was conceived and ultimately built. I know several people who sold their FXXK Evo to buy the 499P Modificata, a car THAT BLOWS THEM AWAY. They all agree it makes their FXXK feel like a brick.

Cylinder count is not my personal calling card towards a Ferrari and I have V12's, V8's and now a V6. Each I like for different reasons, but the lower the cylinder count, the more thrilling from my experience (excluding exhaust note). My Roma has more torque than my Competizione, and the character in the drive with the new 8 speed transmission is FANTASTIC, best Ferrari I currently have in my garage.

Not to mention the Ferrari halo car is meant to be a representation of where Ferrari is in automotive racing and the pinnacle of their engineering, and that is not a V12, unless this was the 1960's. If you want a V12, you can buy the 12 Cilindri, Purosangue or the Icona series.

 

Re: plugging in, yes the 296 is a bit of a pain for me because I can't tend where I park it most times. Having a UPS for when I'm away to keep a trickle charger connected can work, but only having the high voltage 110 plug and no Antigrav battery option isn't great. I think I could just connect to the terminals with the battery that I have even though local Ferrari service has cautioned against it. So far this hasn't been a deal breaker because I can drive it weekly or arrange parking where it can be plugged when I travel. And because my current 296 GTB is a 22 I can't even monitor remotely on the Ferrari app, though I'll be swapping for a new GTB soon so that should be fixed.

Re: 12C - it's interesting, they made it a much lighter feeling car than F12 or 812 that I've driven, but also did seem to take some excitement away. It's also gotten pretty expensive and the 296 is really good (including sound).This does sound much better though:

 

I know we are off topic! I love the 296 VS!

 

Same here! Can't wait for it. Today "Waiting list" appeared in my App. Super excited!

 

If you want, we can make you a 4-cylinder, and we will put the photo of the Monza next to it for marketing.