360 Fuel issue

@Qavion @yelcab So I checked the software on the ECU's with Greg and it turns out someone put a later version software (MY04) on this car so the error codes actually refer to a pending error with ambient air temp (0071 and 1133) which we don't believe to be related to his current issue. In addition, the engine was running (poorly) before he pulled everything apart so ECU's should be ok. Can you please post/send the wiring diagram for the fuel pumps to Greg? He will go through and check the wiring integrity as he did discover some evidence of rodent damage on a few wires.

 

Need to eliminate immo as cause. What do 360’s do? On 550 must turn off immo or car will not crank. Some cars crank just won’t start. I think a 360 will crank with immo on or off. It’s easy to check.

 

There has been a 360 issue before where the car will crank, but not start. The Immo wiring between the Immo ECU (Interface Unit) and the RH ECU was faulty. The wire between the Immo ECU and the start relay coil was ok. There are two separate outputs from the Immo ECU.

Also, sometimes the wire between the Immo ECU and the start relay has been bypassed. The start relay coil just needs a ground from the Immo ECU. You can hardwire a ground on the relay coil wiring.

 

@catrocksgregory

Here's a diagram showing the wiring for the pumps 27L and 3L and the inertia switch 16D

https://www.dropbox.com/t/Fx7wm8zDcoMjnEkU

... a little hard to follow, but the pumps are in the bottom corners, close to the Motronic ECU plugs 26L and 1L. The inertia switch is middle/right hand. The arrows on the wires may help you understand the power flow from the key power relays (see 5H and 3G relay blocks). Red wires are generally live battery power and yellow wires are generally key power.

There should be no power fault which would affect both pumps unless you lose something serious like key power, battery power or power from the inertia switch.

Let me know if you need a hand interpreting the diagram.

 

To the OP, I apologize if I have missed this...but do you have spark? That is to say, are the spark plugs firing? My guess is that you are dealing with an immobilizer issue. If the immo is not happy with the key code or if the immo is otherwise not working or communicating properly, it will not allow fuel or spark to support engine starting. The engine will crank normally, just will not get fuel or spark. I'm not sure how it works on the 360, specifically, and it may be different. If you have no spark and and the fuel pumps aren't running, I would suspect the immo.

 

Most modern scan tools will check some immobilizer functions but a dedicated, immobilizer-specific tool like the Autel 608 would be really helpful here as it can do a deep-dive into the immo functions and communications. Most competent locksmiths will have that tool in their possession. But first, does the red (yellow?) "padlock" icon extinguish on the instrument cluster when you turn your key to the first detent? The padlock icon should disappear after maybe 2-3 seconds, indicating a successful handshake between your key and the immobilizer. Again, please check if you have spark. No spark and no fuel will be really telling and can help determine the next steps to take.

 

"A plug"? Not much help to me, I'm afraid. If you're pulling plugs, then I don't know if these plugs are affecting other things preventing the pumps from running. Who is "we"? Are you not the main participant?

I'm not sure that the immobiliser can interfere with the pump operation on the 360, but I stand to be corrected. Motronic ECUs generally turn on the pumps when they sense a certain engine rotation rpm during cranking, but there can be additional ECU control. e.g. my F355 has a fuel pump priming circuit which operates independently of the immobiliser system (but still needs the ECU). Faulty crank sensors are a common fault for no spark/fuel and no pump operation, but since the banks are almost independent of each other, I would expect some kind of engine combustion activity unless both crank sensors are faulty. Anyway, stranger things have happened on these cars. Maybe one crank sensor can cause all of this?

Just to clarify, you mean a successful handshake between the fob and the immobiliser. The 360 is old tech. You have to push the fob button to get the LED to extinguish. The 360 doesn't have an icon on the dash. Also, I don't know if the LED tells you if the Motronic ECUs have been unlocked. There is only a single wire going between the Immo ECU and the RH Motronic ECU. I don't know if the data on this wire is bi-directional? I'm at the limit of my knowledge... Time to call in the Immo experts @eric355 @gobble ?

Regarding spark, I don't know if this plug you pulled affected other circuits causing no spark. Did you have spark before when you cranked the engine with the immo deactivated?

 

This is how it works when you have it perfect.

You get in, push the button on the key Fob.
The car's immobilizer beeps four times.
The red diode on the left hand side of the dash goes from blinking to either OFF or Solid Red (depending on whether your immobilizer is perfect or not)
Insert the key, turn it two clicks to On and wait.
The Immobilizer tells the ECU1 that there is a valid Key Fob and the car is free to start.
ECU1 enables its right hand side fuel pump and ignition circuit, and tells ECU2 to come off sleep.
ECU2 enables its left hand side fuel pump and ignition circuits.

If you have no ignition and no fuel pump, the ECUs are not awake ... maybe because of the immobilizer malfunction.

 

Don't worry about the TDC sensor yet. That code is not even real. Focus on why your are not getting fuel pump power.

 

Should be 2 beeps and LED out (unless your alarm is not perfect)?

 

I have to update this earlier comment. The Immo must be disabled to get pump operation on F355 (and as Mitch says, on the 360) during cranking. The 355 has an additional priming circuit which is independent of the immobiliser, but after running some tests on my car today, the immobiliser must be off to get pump operation during cranking.

With no spark and no fuel pump operation, I think we have to turn our attention to the ECUs or the wiring between the Immobiliser and RH Motronic ECU.

Note that there is an Immobiliser Interface Unit between the Immobiliser ECU and the RH Motronic ECU. Apart from wiring, these have been known to fail also.

 

Here's a wiring diagram for the Immobiliser (Modena):

https://www.dropbox.com/t/wkTgMCTJvnJ8FLBh

Link expires in 6 days.

Unfortunately, doing wiring continuity checks on the Immo Interface Unit can be difficult because all the wires are black (for security reasons). If the plug pins aren't numbered, you'll have to figure out numbering by checking various pins for power and ground.

To which code are you referring, Mitch? The code was relating to air temperature, not the TDC/crank sensor.