Hamilton deserves more respect

Nope, i would much bet on Alonso trying to get in a Ferrari Hypercar rather than Elton...pretty sure Alonso will still want to compete after f.1...i just hope not in a Ferrari...

 

Ferrari WEC hyercar is doing quite well at the moment.

 

People and "so called f.1 experts" must stop being ridiculous and going with the narrative and Pr, and must start calling it as it is. Winning one title or several ones doesn't make you the best driver or a Goat. There are plenty of f.1 drivers that have win championships, that were far from being the best in the day. HIll, Villeneuve, Rosberg, Button, Hunt, Jones, Sheckter, Hawthorn, were not the best, many of them not even top 3 or top 5. All good drivers, but not the best, so just stop claiming a driver is a goat because he managed to get a hold of a dominant car. Fact is Elton got beaten by Button, by Nico, by George, by Charles, and wasn't by Alonso because Mclaren sabotaged him. The only 2 guys he was able to beat confortably were Bottas and Kovalainen. same with Vettel, who did he beat? Webber? heck, Prost had to beat Arnoux, Mansell, Senna, Rosberg, Lauda....likewise, Senna had to beat De Angelis, Prost, Berger....Lauda beat Prost and Reutman, Piquet beat Lauda and Mansell...and you guys want to compare?????
It's true that Max and Michael did not have amazing team mates, but their level of dominance over their team mates was absurd, and they both won titles without having the best car, more than once. I struggle to remenber a race where Elton made me think "wow, this guy really can drive! Now think of Max and Michael, you'll lose count of the times they really amazed the crowd! So yah, Hamilton is a good driver, but and ordinary champion that had the luck to have the most dominant car for the largest period of time in f,1 history. Leclerc would not have lost the 2021 title driving that Mercedes, neither last year title driving the Mclaren. Just as Alesi would have beaten Michael if driving the 94 and 95 Williams. People should stop being sheep and open their eyes to actually watch a race.

 

Exacly, let's not ruin it by putting Alonso in!

 

......okay furoni....if you say so.

 

Interesting you say that, because Alesi had a contract to drive for Williams, apparently, and prefered to go to Ferrari.
Williams had a winning car at the time, and Ferrari didn't, but Alesi was lured by the Scuderia at the last minute.
Alesi knew the predicaments Ferrari was in, but "believed he could make a difference" [sic] .
That was a terrible error of judgement that completely determined his career: Alesi never recovered from it !!
Some drivers are in the "right" team and the dominant car because they had the discernement to make that choice.
Hamilton wasn't just "lucky" to land at Mercedes, he took a gamble leaving a top team to go to unknown Mercedes.

 

There was outside influences as well that told Hamilton to go to MercedesAMGF1 and sign for 2014 no?

 

I was thinking WEC as going out on top vs. making a real contribution. but perhaps a good car good team he can still win.

 

Alonso at Ferrari? in WEC... disaster. This guy is toxic to the core. I'll be glad to see the last of him, I was never a fan, and could not warm up to him. Personally I think he is WAY over rated.

 

Unless the team can pick up the pieces, I think its this year. all the Fame etc.. will go down if he continued to crater...

 

I would take issue with your comments on Hawthorne and Scheckter... they both were very tough drivers. Hawthorne more over in all forms of racing, but Scheckter was at the top from almost the beginning... he was ruthless and hard as nails. He got out when he was still young and alive...

as for the Greatest of All time... I think there are ways to compare, but its more about the longest lasting effects you have had in the sport... for me then the list is very different from others on just Pure driving, but that has to be up there as well:

1. Fangio: simply showed how it was done, in the most dangerous era, and walked away but always stayed close- gentile, schollarly, and when back in the car for demos - was always fast.
2. Jackie Stewart: He has done more than anyone else - team, company etc. to make racing and F-1 world famous. He has also driven the sport to new safety and financial standards, His impact is felt to this day, in terms of how races are run, the safety level and the image and celebrity that F1 has. Behind the scenes he built relationships with huge multi nationals, Heads of state, and ordinary people that have kept F-1 in the forefront. In terms of driving, he was the first one to look at overall fitness, mental health and how to think through a race. even today, he knows what is happening and what has to happen to win.
3. Niki Lauda: Much the same way, that Stewart led things, Lauda has done it from the car, and board room. His impact still is felt with how F1 and its organization is built.

I know people want to put Schumacher, Senna and Hamilton on a pedestal as the best, but the legacy they leave is what gets you there. Its hard to judge driving a 57 Mercedes to a 2025 Mercedes who is best... but the Knowing how to win, and preserve the impact is to me what is most important.

 

Nigel Roebuck was a big Alesi fan and wondered how many WDC and GP victories he might have had at Williams?

Lewis signed for the 2013 season. Niki Lauda lobbied him hard sharing with him the advanced state of the Mercedes power unit for the new formula. Had he declined their second choice was Nico Hulkenberg . . .

 

Most top drivers in F3 and F2 already have managers or agencies looking for opportunities for them to enhance their career.
Hamilton wasn't unique in that situation, but he still took a gamble going to Mercedes.
Choosing to go to Mercedes when he did wasn't a safe bet. Same for Schumacher who joined Ferrari in complere disarray.
Same for Piastri refusing promotion in the Alpine F1 team and prefering to join McLaren.

 

+1 Correct in my opinion. No one has a crystal ball on all this. Timing and luck/results or the perfect combination to include a car CAPABLE of winning close or already on the track.

 

Not true.
1990 Ferrari was a far better car than the williams, so with that in mind, Alesi took the best possible choice.
Also he didn't break the deal with Williams because he decided to go to Ferrari, it was Frank who failed to fullfill what he had agreed with Jean and did not anounce him, because he wanted Mansell and was stalling Jean.

 

Well, that's your version.
There is another one which says that after initial positive contacts with Williams, Alesi received an offer from Ferrari.
Frank Williams said later he got wind of this and looked for explanations, but Alesi didn't aswer his phone calls.
Alesi was dropped from Williams plans. As for Ferrari having "a far better car", that's debatable too.
Alesi failed to do his homework to see the potential at Williams, on the way up then.
In 1991, Williams was already 2nd in the WCC, but Champion in 92, 93, 94, 96 and 97.
For the records, Mansell was WDC in 92, Prost in 93, Hill in 96, and Villeneuce in 97 driving for Williams.
In the meantime, at Ferrari, Alasi was 7th, 7th, 6th, and 5th, then 4th. Alesi totally missed Williams dominating decade !

 

To be fair we have to remember that the Ferrari in 1990 was a more competitive car compared with the FW13b.
No one could really have guessed what Newey and Head have cooked with the mighty FW14 ..

 

Not my version, its the real version.

 

Is that why Alesi said that ignoring Williams interest in him to go to Ferrari was his biggest mistake ?
Alesi was another driver who put Ferrari on a pedestal and wouldn't miss a chance to drive for them.
In the following years, he had plenty of time to mull over that decision.

 

As I recall, Jean had already signed either a contract or a letter of intent with Williams and then signed with Ferrari. Ferrari had to work out some resolution with Williams which included giving them a F1 car.

 

aLESI HAD 3 CONTRACTS SIGNED AT THE SAME TIME! tYRREL, wILLIAMS AND fERARI. sorry
So, Frank proposed the deal to jean and he accepted, and there was a compromise on Williams part to anounce Jean at the French gp. meanwhile, Ferrari aproched him, and Jean saID HE WOULD LOVE TO GO, BUT HE COULD NOT HE HAD A CONTRACT, AND HE COULDN'T SAI WITH WHOM, IT WAS SECRET. Ferrari said ok, wi'll find out. Problem was that behind doors, Frank wa strying to lure mansell out of retirement (he had just anounced he would retire at teh end of the year, he was driving for Ferrari at the time) and jean was the backup plan if that failed, and at the same time he wouls stop jan from being signed by another top team. When French gp arrived, the anouncement was not made, Jean confronted Frank and he kept stalling, jean insisted and told Williams he had other teams interested, if he didn't wanted him, to tell him now, and Frank said no, he had a contract with jean untill september, and he would not release him, nor announce him...wich would screw jean because by then it would be to late to sign for next year. So only after that did he seek a way to break contract with Williams, Piquet helped him out, and Ferrari bought his contract. The only reason Jean didn't drive for Williams wa sbecause Frank failed to fullfill their agreement.
As for chosing badly, in 1990 Ferrari had probably the best car, together with Mclaren, Williams was a distant third, so nothing (unless you had a crystal ball) indicated that 91 would be diferent, in fact, Prost and Ferrari were clear favourites to take the title, so from that perspective, jean choe the best possible option with the data that was avaiable, but again, the only reason he ended up at ferrari was because Frank broke the agreement he had with Alesi....wich was a bad deal for both, because it probably costed Frank a couple of titles...and the same to Jean.