Wierd problem with the convertible top. | FerrariChat

Wierd problem with the convertible top.

Discussion in '360/430' started by slysnake, Jun 2, 2025 at 2:13 PM.

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  1. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    I have recently had the convertible top hydraulic pump, and the two secondary cylinders rebuilt. Now I'm having a strange issue with the top opening and closing. Oil level is correct in pump and there appear to be no leaks. It's strange that the top cover closes so slowly when opening the top but moves fine when stowing. Please view the video and give any suggestions.

    Video link:
     
  2. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
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    Joe
    The video is listed as private.
     
  3. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Can you check again? it should be showing now. Let me know.
     
  4. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
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    Joe
    Yes, it works now. Hmm, that is odd. I'd say maybe air in the line, but that would affect all of the movements and not just a portion of it. Is there a chance it's moving forward very slowly due to gravity and not hydraulics? Do you have a code reader that can check microswitch position?

    @Qavion for help also since he is an expert in this area.
     
  5. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    I have several code readers but I'm not sure they can read a Ferrari. Can you recommend a relatively inexpensive one that would work?

    As for the micro switch position, would that effect the cover in the middle of its movement? It's odd that it moves smoothly and quickly when the top has stowed itself. It seems to come up fine when first deploying and slows way done to a stop when the top has raised out of the bay. maybe a misaligned microswitch that's not reading the top deployed?
     
  6. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Oh boy! I spelled Weird wrong. But there seems to be no way to edit it. :p
     
  7. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Sep 13, 2022
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    Joe
    A code reader should be everybody's first accessory. An Autel AP200 is a decent one that will connect to your phone.

    Programming is looking for the correct order of microswitches to be on or off. If it doesn't see the correct combination, it will not continue to the next stage of the process and just sit and wait for it. Sometimes, a small misalignment of the switch will cause the error. This could have happened during your repair. I'm not saying that's the case though as it usually means the top moves or doesn't move. I haven't seen an instance where that would cause the top to move slower.

    Here's a thread with a similar problem.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/360-convertible-top-in-slooooooow-motion.668263/

    I'd do a careful look around to make sure you don't have any other leaks to be on the safe side. Also, how many times have you cycled the top? Might need to do it a few more times and see if it's getting better from bleeding or not.
     
  8. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    That sounds reasonable. I'll get that code reader and check it. I've cycled the top about 10 times. Funny it moves fine when stowing away. I think the microswitch thing is looking like a probable thing.
     
  9. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
    14,054
    Sydney
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    Ian Riddell
    Far from an expert, but with the data available from manuals and my fellow "experts", we can usually figure something out. In this case, however, I'm not sure if it's electrical or hydraulic.
    We do need to make sure the signals are ok first (with a scanner). @flash32 can usually recommend a good scanner.

    Or just search this forum for "roof scanner".

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/150082322/

    A simple Autel Maxi might do, but you may need a good one later for other issues.

    Here's a crazy 9 page thread on roof issues. It shows the mechanical operation of the lid actuator (page 5). @EastMemphis

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/ah-the-fun-of-a-convertible.680583/
     
  10. flash32

    flash32 F1 Veteran

    Aug 22, 2008
    6,743
    Central NJ
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    Dominick
    Yes a ap200 old style (white and gray) would be helpful for now
     
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  11. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    OK, I have ordered the ap200 (white and gray). In the meantime, I'm going to double check hydraulic hose connections to the pump. Although i carefully marked them and am sure I put them back in the correct order. But worth a double check.
     
  12. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    What year is your car Dan?
    If it's 20+ year old fluid you may also want to give it a flush. Most of us use a MB fluid.
    In 10 years of ownership I've flushed mine twice (every 5 years).

    P.S. I don't take too much apart. I get at the fill hole, suction the contents out, pump back in the same amount and operate the roof about 5 times.
    Easy peasy!

    This is my best friend in the garage (no affiliation to Bezos or his lady)
    She's self priming and powerful!


    Image Unavailable, Please Login



    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  13. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Car is a 2002. I sent the pump in to have it rebuilt a few weeks ago. Also rebuilt the two secondary cylinders in the top. Refilled with fresh oil. Oil level in pump is still correct (middle of bullseye when stowed), no apparent leaks. I just rechecked all the lines and they are connected correctly.
     
  14. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    Just curious, who did you use for the rebuild?
     
  15. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Top Hydraulics
     
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  16. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Here's a video of the top trying to close. To me it seems like there is not enough oil in the lines. Is it possible to have an air lock? Cycling back and forth doesn't seem to help. Is there another way to bleed the system?

     
  17. GogglesPisano

    GogglesPisano F1 Rookie
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    What oil did you use?
     
  18. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Can you manually assist with roof closure at that point in your video? I assume this will tell you if your pump is straining against some mechanical resistance or if your pump is cavitating (running dry).
     
  19. priericky128

    priericky128 Formula Junior
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    Feb 11, 2021
    633
    St. Louis MO
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    Rick
    I’ve heard that sound before. It sounds like low on fluid to me. Also the pump heats up really fast with continuously cycling. I never broke mine but I am sure it’s possible.

    check the reservoir after cycling a few times. It’s also possible you have a leak somewhere or the lines connected wrong.
     
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  20. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    I'm constantly checking the fluid level with this problem. it's always in the correct level. I agree, it does act and sound like it doesn't have enough fluid. I would think the fluid in the system would drain out of the hoses when I removed the lines to send the pump in, but they actually leaked very little.
     
  21. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    I'm leaving on a two-week trip tomorrow so I should have that scanner here by the time I get back.
     
  22. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Mercedes ZH-M 343.0 Hydraulic fluid
     
  23. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    I can pull the roof down to the wind screen, but there is strong resistance. Even then the latches don't close.

    Similar to the top when coming up it sometimes gets stuck before razing to the 90-degree position. I try to manually help it at that point, but it is locked down. If I shut the car off, then I can move the top freely.
     
  24. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    I sent the pump in to be rebuilt first. The motor had burned out. I sent the secondary pistons in to be rebuilt because the passenger side one was leaking, and I just thought I would have both done while I was at it. They came back labeled right and left and that's how I put them in. The only thing I can think of that I might have messed up in was the exact number of threads to screw the connecting rod to on the pistons. But I have to be within 1 thread at most.
     
  25. slysnake

    slysnake Karting

    Dec 1, 2019
    74
    Iowa/Hawaii
    Full Name:
    Dan Proctor
    Double checked the oil level again today. it is right in the middle of the bullseye with the top stowed.
     

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