Ferrari monoposto thread

I’m even more confused now. I thought the Perfetti 375 F1 was N.2 and the Gonzalez 1951 British GP winner.

There seems to be much confusion re the premium monopostos from this period including people referring to the Gonzales 375 F1 as the first Ferrari to win a Formula 1 race which is incorrect. Ferrari had won Formula 1 races before this, but not Formula 1 Championship races.

 

I recommend to close this entire thread because of so much incorrect information. Simple speculation without period paper documentation is absolutely useless and a complete waste of time. Not serious at all.
Then start several individual new threads for each decade, as somebody else suggested.
My 2 cents.

Marcel Massini

 

Oh, you've put a bit of a downer on proceedings
Maybe, you could illustrate where some of this information is incorrect. I agree, there is a fair bit of speculation about some things, particularly regarding the origins of the 375 Indy cars. But, I think, I have an accurate record of the race appearances of the 375s in 1950 and 1951. This is based on the photographic record, which I think is relevant, regarding the history of these cars.
I would guess that only the Ferrari archive has any relevant period documentation regarding this period. Maybe, you could encourage them to be a bit more forthcoming.
Cheers, Allan

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From my experience of collaborating with Allan Morris over almost three years, sometimes daily, I can only say that he is correct.

 

Jose-Froilan Gonzalez' World Championship winner of the 1951 British Grand Prix was built in 1950. What I refer to as GP/375-2. It only ever ran a 12-plug engine and was used as the team's "Muletto" (Practice car), for much of the 1951 season, as well as being Ascari's winning car at the German Grand Prix. Previously, it did have a race history, detailed in my book.
Georgio Perfetti's No. 2 is a car that was built in 1951, the sixth Tipo 375 F1 built.

 

So has the Perfetti 375 F1 has been renumbered from N.6 to N.2? This car has a 24 plug engine.

 

Yes. The first "No.2" of 1950 only ever ran a 12-plug engine, whilst the "No.2" of 1951 started life with a 24-plug engine. As well, the "No 2" of 1951 appeared at the 1951 Italian Grand Prix with what came to be called: "Camelli" bodywork. I have seen a photo of the 1950 No.2 at the 1951 Italian GP, when Chico Landi drove it. It is definitely NOT carrying "Camelli" type bodywork. Period photographs tell the story.

 

Was the N.2 of 1951 ever numbered, or was it initially physically numbered N.6?

 

I'm quoting from a post Doug Nye wrote on Autosport's Nostalgia forum, 25 February 2024.

"There's another joker in the pack here, instilled by the AC Milano's perennial offer of bonus money to any Italian constructor introducing "a new design car" at their Italian Grand Prix. I believe I am correct in recalling that Ferrari took the money in 1951 for the high-tailed camelli 375 variants - introduced there and in consequence probably stamped as "1" and "2".

The single-plug muletto was plainly identified as No2 at the time of the British GP, and was then preferred by Ascari for his use in the following German GP. BUT by the end of that season Ferrari had two No 2s in their armoury. the year-old muletto and, from Monza, the new series camelli."

Maybe Mr Nye has period documentation. Or maybe not but, I assume, he knows what he is talking about.

Cheers, Allan

 

The Perfetti Ferrari 375 in a previous life. Auckland, NZ 1989. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

So @ajmorris and @Writer Christian Huet knows what he is talking about too, admittedly 30 years ago but facts he may have stated then do not change over time, and he has stated that the Perfetti car, 375 F1 N.2 won 2 non championship races in 1951 as well as 2 championship races, the British GP and the German GP. Again according to Huet 375 F1 N.2 entered races in 1952 when it won the GP D'Albi which it won again in 1953. Among other races it entered it won the GP De Bougie in 1956.

 

Yes, Huet's results are correct for 375/50-2 up until the end of 1951. The results from 1952 onwards apply to the car that Villoresi debuted at the 1951 Italian GP and was then sold to Rosier in 1952.
In the Cavelleria book's text Rancati writes that 375/50-2 bodywork was replaced with new 'camelli' bodywork and the single-plug engine replaced with twin-plug engine No6 before being sold to Rosier. This did not happen.
I've attached a photo of Villoresi at the 1951 Spanish GP and one of Rosier at the 1952 Albi GP. Same car? Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login