Ferrari F80

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Jerry, I'll take up your idea, which I completely agree with, that it would have been an excellent opportunity for Ferrari to introduce a new hybrid V12 to equip the SF 90 and also put it on the F80. You mentioned that a complete new V12 engine NA with more compact oval pistons could be the holy grail that would allow overcoming the limitations inherent to the F140 engine. Apart from what is stated in the patent that Ferrari filed for a new V12 NA with oval pistons, little else is known. However, according to what some engineers familiar with these engines have written, the oval shape, in addition to allowing for a more compact design compared to traditional circular pistons, is believed to facilitate the use of eight valves per cylinder, which would potentially increase power output, eventually to near 1000 cv, making simultaneously the engine more efficient and also increasing revving capabilities to substantially higher numbers.

We can speculate what the F80 would have been like if its powertrain had a hybrid V12 NA of this type. I think that in terms of performance it would not have been inferior at all, but certainly in terms of sound/emotion it would have been something completely different.

 

Exactly Mario. But, there is an efficiency with the V6, we have to admit it. And I have been driving around in my 296 these past few days, and if I can simply get past what works out to simply being my own ego which says “oh gee its a V6 not a V8 or V12” … its really mighty, sounds great, has the right feel, does the right things as the revs build. Back to the NA V12 with hybrid, I think we can see that Ferrari chose correctly with the forced induction V8 for the SF90, which is meant to be the range performance king. Even over 5 years after its introduction it is competitive, if not beating, the best from other marques, such as the midship NA V12 Lamborghini Revulto. I think the turbos give greater torque. I really do think the F80 is going to be an incredible drive, but I admit, at this point, this is simply just my bias/ belief. Ferrari has an incredible team of engineers and I just don’t think they will disappoint.

 

That has more to do with the weight of the Revuelto, but there is no denying that the SF90 remains a performance monster 6 years after its launch.

 

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F80 tailor made spec https://www.instagram.com/reel/DKbXy-eK7q-/ on picture from confiugrator it looking that car have painted roof, it is possible ?
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I know so many of you will think what I am about to say is sacrilegious, but I am thrilled the F80 does not have a V12, maybe I am one of just a small group. I know I have said this in the past but I will be redundant . As a Ferrari enthusiast and collector I love my V12 engines in the cars they are in. On the vintage side, nothing better than a Colombo V12 in a 250. For modern cars, the 812 Competizione, Purosangue, the V12 just fits the more nostalgic disposition of these front engine touring cars. There is a romantic side to the engine, the sound, they suite not only the new V12 cars but also perfectly accentuate the Icona range. But for me they are just not where I go for performance. I am just shocked that more people in this group are not super excited for the new V6 Hybrid and what this powerplant is all about. Its a marvel of engineering, perfectly balanced, small, light, dive into the engineering, its fantastic. The F80 feels like the future to me and like all new Ferrari's I am lucky to own, each one outdoes the prior, I can only imagine what this car will drive like. I want to be speechless and move into what the future has to offer. That is why I love driving my Ferrari's from the 60's, 80's, 2000's so much fun to feel the progression of engineering and what time has to offer outside of just me getting older. To me a V12, even a new V12 would have not been appropriate for this car. Truth be told, and again I have said this in the past, I prefer driving my Roma, 296 over my 812 Competizione. V12 = heavy, not great low end torque, down on power at altitude, all these things are not good.

I just struggle to understand why so many in this tread are so dead set on only a V12, its just cylinders. Engines are designed to do a very specific thing, and a V12 is not the best way to achieve this very specific thing. This is why they are not used in race cars anymore. Why cant we just let some cars be V12 and other be something else, why do we car how many cylinders are in a race/track car.

I feel that all this V12 energy should be placed into the Icona series, PERFECT range for what a Ferrari V12 is all about in something more exotic than a Purosangue or 12 Cilindri.

And before I have 1,000 responses about sound, easy, put an aftermarket exhaust on the car. Personally, sound for me is so low on my list for a car. I have lots of Ferrari's that make no sound and they are still super engaging to drive.

 

https://www.instagram.com/varryx_/p/DKhw4BHCzcZ/?img_index=1

 

The reason is that the regulations are favouring downsizing, either by limiting the allowed fuel consumption or power, rendering a larger engine either illegal (F1) or needless (WEC). On the other hand, Aston Martin went with a V12 both for the race and the road car, even though they had to detune the engine by more than 300 BHP for it to abide to the racing regulations, thus making it inherently unsuitable, as it was too powerful to begin with. For road car applications there is no right or wrong way (if you disregard emissions mandates), just different ways for achieving the end goal of every manufacturer. Engineering is an exercise in compromises, every solution has its pros and cons. Ideally, I would have preferred a new N/A Ferrari V12 (12k RPM, 1000+ CV and all), but I totally understand why Ferrari went with their brilliant V6, as this seems to be the future and equally importantly it is what Ferrari use in racing (their famous transfer of technology).

 

I think it comes down to what captures our imaginations. Maybe, over time, our imaginations will catch up to the standards of today. Or maybe those standards will change and come back to where we are. In the end, what captures one's imagination is subjective. However, objectively, yes, the new power system is mega.

 

I've seen pictures of a spec with the front black stripe painted as well. Can anyone confirm if Ferrari have loosened up on their spec restrictions, and now allow for painted front stripe and painted roof?

 

The F80, like all its predecessors, has a link with motorsports and as we know its V6 hibrid is closed derived from the powerplant of the 499P which won Le Mans. We must go back in time to understand the reasons that led Formula 1 to transition in 2014 from the fantastic V10 to V6 turbo engines and these were primarily the need for increased fuel efficiency, reduced complexity and costs, and to align with emerging hybrid technology and electric systems.

When we previously discussed what the F80 could have been with a V12 NA engine, we did not intend to criticize its V6 which is a great engine, nor did we ever consider the possibility of it being replaced by a V12 like the F140 we currently know, as that would not make any sense technically. What we did consider as a mere hypothesis, was the use of a new V12 very different from the current ones and, to a certain extent, “revolutionary” due to the fact that its pistons and cylinders are oval. As is well known, this engine is included in a patent recently filed by Ferrari and, although it is not yet known whether it will ever materialize in the future, everything indicates that it could achieve increased efficiency and reduced friction due to the fact that the oval pistons minimize friction on the cylinder walls, leading to higher mechanical efficiency. These piston’s shape also allows a more compact design of the engine due to closer cylinders's packing, thus reducing the overall length and weight of the engine, which is absolutely essential in a hybrid engine. The oval shape of the pistons is also able to enhance valve capacity and this is a very important aspect to allow the accommodation of larger intake and exhaust valves, potentially improving airflow enabling the engine to "breathe" better. All of this could result in a more rotating engine with greater power output.

Paraphrasing Caeruleus11, what happens is that “...for many of us who love Ferrari, Ferrari is first and foremost an engine builder…” and the V12 is perhaps the thing that best personifies its 75 years of history. There is no doubt that the V12 is an engine renowned for power, smoothness, soundtrack and character and although there has been a great evolution in Ferrari’s V8s and V6s, IMO none of them has yet been able to bring together this set of qualities in a single engine.

 

V8

On the contrary, the hybrids were much more complex and expensive.

 

I will admit that it would be fitting for Ferrari to be the one who "reinvents" the V12, I hope they do produce the new engine they patented (I read the patent when it was released). If regulations will allow V12 to still exist Ferrari needs to be the company who ushers them into the future. This again will allow us to experience the progression, continuing in a V12, that Ferrari always brings into their next cars. It is an exciting thought.

 

From what I was told at the launch and my Tailor Made session, a painted front blade will never happen. Aftermarket...

 

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Must be testing for the XX version

 

I think the tragic loss of the V12 in the top Ferrari is somewhat moot if you can't even see or hear the engine in the car.

 

How so? It looks totally stock, plus the XX will probably be a real XX (i.e. track only).

 

As I got used to hearing the V10s from the pit for a good number of years, I can't get them out of my head. LOL
You're right, before 2014 were the loud V8s.

 

https://www.facebook.com/share/v/19XCjmuUWb/

The sticky paper is louder than the motor...

 

you might have to wait a very long time for this engine, if it is ever in development...
It's just a patent among others...Honda invested massive resources in this technology before abandoning it because it was impossible to achieve reliability.

 

From what I’ve read the oval pistons technology has several technical difficulties. However, Honda’s came up with this idea 46 years ago and in the mean time what was almost impossible then to achieve in terms of machining has changed a lot with the new resources that exist today.
If ferrari is able to make this engine reliable I’m sure it could be the future of the V12.

 

Just wrap it.

Marcel Massini

 

Honda made the oval pistons because the 500cc rules mandated a maximum of 4 cilinders. If not, they would had made a V8; the oval pistons solution was like merging two cilinders together.

Having said that, this could make the V12 shorter, but I don't know if it would help with efficiency, that it's the main problem of big engines today.