1973 Ferrari 365GT4 2+2 Chassis 18775

Good day Daren,

Thank you for your kind words! I am somewhat embarrassed that it has taken me so long. However, as mentioned, other items, work, life, etc seems to take me away from getting this all sorted. I am hoping this will change this season... as I am pushing hard to get 18775 on the road in a few months time. I may have to forgo the engine bay refresh until next season if I want to drive the car... but I am hoping I can get it all sorted.

Also, check out post 90 above (https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/18775.455646/page-4#post-148240549) where I have provided a number of fchat links to the various sub projects of what I have done to 18775. Keep in mind that 18775 is a 365 GT4 2+2 and has differences to the 400 series. For example the some of suspension bits on the 365 are a lot different to the 400... the load levellers are another difference ... and the 365 has knock offs and so have wheel spines on the wheel hubs. That said, the process can be more or less the same. If you run into any issues, simply post up and I or others will jump in to help.

Cheers,

Sam

 

@samsaprunoff - This looks amazing. Great thread read.

I see you were previously working on some CNC machined speaker grilles. I was looking at trying to do that as well, but prior to me re-inventing the wheel so to speak, did you ever get those made? Any pics of how they turned out?

Turns out that the rear AC option on the series 1 400i's used a pair of those grilles for air intakes in addition to the two in the door cards.

 

Good day Brian,

Thank you for your comments!

I did make the grills, but they are not done yet. My plan was to have them fully CNC cut... however, my machinist friend did not have stock material on hand and so I had to to the small volume metal supplier for the material. Since it was not a high priority, etc... I kept forgetting, etc. I then had to get some Aluminum bits laser cut at a different shop and thought I would have the grills laser cut... which I did. They turned out very nice, but the edges were too crisp/sharp and so I dropped off the lasered grills with my CNC buddy. I wanted him to face the material and add a slight chamfer on the edges, etc. This was last Fall... and again since there was no hurry I have not bothered him for a schedule. Now that you reminded me, I will call him today and see where I sit in this CNC buddy que. On a related note, at the time I dropped off the lasered grills, I dropped off some aluminum stock material that he will use to create an marelli distributor adapter for my Sun 504 distributor machine. This was also not a big panic, as I 3D printed an adapter in the interim.

I will post up the grills when I get them back... and then they will probably be powder coated or possibly black anodized. I am learning towards to powder coating, as anodization can be a bit translucent which would not look like the stock ones.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Sam,
Tremendous work over the years! Your recent pics are inspiring me to do the same to Karina! (My 400). Should be getting the car back from Tom in the next few/several weeks, after which I can plan the next part of the restoration! Likely the suspension and related bits….

 

Good day Jared,

Thank you for the kudos!

I, also, was inspired by others to "up my game". The only negative is the extra time to do things. It is pretty rewarding to see all the items refreshed and renewed, and if anything adds to the excitement plus motivation.

Have fun with your suspension and post up pics!

Cheers,

Sam

 

As an update...

I am getting close to getting my Boxer carbs finished up... and then I can revert my attention back to the 365. As mentioned, I "had" to make compromises with regards to restoring the boxer's carbs. I could not fully restore them, as there were processes and (very nasty) chemicals needed to restore the 512 BB's carb's color and surface finish, that I have never used/done before. Since BB carbs, Weber IDA40 3C (3-barrel) ... but with specific mods, are extremely rare I did not want to learn or experiment on them... and so I decided to forgo the full resto on them and simply refinish as many of the bits I could. A IDA40 3C carb variant was used on early Porsche 911's (and the Lambo MIura and a few other cars) and so my thought was to look for a damage 911 version and learn the refinishing techniques on it. Even so, as I work on the Boxer carbs, I am constantly reminded that the results could be far better... and so it is annoying to stay on target.

If all goes well, I should have the Boxer carbs done and installed this week... and then back to the 365 asap... as time is ticking away.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day All,

Just another update...

I finally finished up and installed my now correct 512BB carbs. Sadly, other duties took precedence along with having a few issues with setting on the 512BB carbs. One issue was the carbs were originally setup and used on a 1000HP Twin Turbo Koenig 512BB and so I reverted back to the stock settings, which took time. Smaller chokes were installed, float level and jet changes, etc. Setting up 512BB floats are a major pain and are time consuming, as the process is somewhat iterative... To minimize the efforts and my annoyance, I designed and 3D printed a float level setting jig. Effectively for the IDA403C carbs you have to install a measured pin to maintain a fixed distance for the needle valve and then inverter the carb assembly and measure the top of the float to the carb base. To adjust the float height you have to bend the float tab... and ideally keep this tab parallel/flat to the fixed needle valve spacer. Bending the tab as little as 0.4mm translates to a 2-3 mm float height change. These carbs are very sensitive to the float height, as it impacts when the main carb circuit starts to take effect. Because of the tab bending, etc you have to do it multiple times. The jig allows me to do all this outside of the carb... The results are not 100% every time, as the jig is not perfect... but it reduces the time dramatically. Once the float height is very close, I use a calibrated sight glass that attaches to the carb's float bowl and I can see the float level in real time while the engine is running. Fine float level adjustments are then done by installing very thin SS shims under the needle valve. This all took time.
Once this was sorted, I had an issue setting the mixtures... it took a while to sort out. The issue was the fuel enrichment solenoids (FES) (sort of like an electric choke) were not seating properly and so some fuel was making its way past the seals... and so was messing up the mixture adjustment. I tried everything to sort the FES's, but 3 out of 4 were intermittent. Sadly, these are NLA... and so more time was spent trying to find replacements. I found some that were NOS used on some Fiats, but only in Asian countries. I finally adjusted everything based on the stock setup and the car runs well, but rich. So, after reviewing the 4-gas data, I now need to introduce more air and so I am need to modify some of the various bits. However, the car is running... and I am anxious to get back on the 365 and so I am leaving the BB for now.

Cheers,

Sam

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Good day All,

Now that the BB is mostly off my plate, I have been reassembling the 365's suspension. All in all the process took longer than I thought. I replated the suspension arms, which added a very small bit of material to where the outer suspension bushings need to be pressed in. The inner suspension bushings are flamblok (rubber), but the outers are far more complex. There is a pressed core that has an inner teflon or brass bushing which then has a SS solid bushing. On either side of the SS solid bushing are flat washers with yet another teflon or brass bushing that goes between in the inside washer assembly (see pic). The re-plate reduced the inner dimension by about 0.08mm which affected the pressed bushing which affected the SS solid bushing. To remedy, I had to use an adjustable reamer to precisely enlarge the bushing bore. So... extra time was needed.
Assembly was also a bit of work, as since the parts are new, etc ... means a lot of fiddling to get everything assembled. To make the process easier, I left all of the fasteners loose to allow for additional clearances. Now that all of the rear suspension bits are assembled (except for the rear sway bar), I will tighten everything once the car sits on its own weight to ensure that all the bits are in the correct position. That said, I am very pleased at how well the whole suspension looks... and especially when contrasted to how it was when I got the car. Please forgive the chaos in my shop, as it is a mess. It seems that as soon as I clean it, I get it all messy again. Clearly in my case... if my shop is totally clean means that I am not doing any work in it

I will button up the rear suspension, rear brakes, etc over the next few weeks and once complete, I will be removing the engine and sorting out some items on it, but also the engine bay as well.

Cheers,

Sam

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looks great!

 

Good day Jared,

Thank you! The really tough part to all of this is... the upfront prep, etc without seeing the results until everything is done and reassembly starts. Once reassembly does start, it becomes a stimulant... and so reassembly can move along at a faster rate... until one discovers an item that was missed, forgotten, or overlooked.

Cheers,

Sam

 

My car is still with Tom having the engine reassembled/installed. When I get it back I'm probably going to work on the suspension; I'd love for mine to turn out like yours! Too bad the suspension is so covered up by the wheels, but knowing how nice it looks redone makes driving it a whole lot nicer!

 

Can I ask the question again about the rear suspension setup-
What limits the suspension movement on bound and rebound?
On my car as far as I can see, on "bound" the suspension movement in the upward direction is limited to the the point where either the coil spring becomes fully compressed, or the shock absorber is fully compressed. I don't seem to have anything such as a rubber buffer to soften the impact.
Likewise, on rebound as far as I can see the downward movement of the suspension arms is limited to the maximum extension of either the load leveller or the shock absorber. And there is no rubber buffer for this movement to soften the impact.
I don't recall any other car I have worked on which doesn't have some form of rubber bump stop.
Am I missing something?

 

Good day Jared,

Indeed, the suspension all refreshed just looks amazing on all of these older f-cars. The 365/400's suspension is a bit hidden, but still can been seen via certain angles. The BB's can be seen from the rear given the BB's tire/ride height and the lack of a trunk.

Refreshing the suspension is not overly difficult, but is time consuming given its complexity and the number of bits. Some of the suspension bits are very expensive if bought through the usual sources. However, some bits are industry standard parts... like the inner and flat bushings which can be purchased quite reasonably. When I get a chance I will document the bits and where I bought the standard bits. However... be advised that one can fall down the rabbit hole pretty quickly with these projects... as refreshing one assembly can make others look shabby and so the effort can easily cascade. In my case sorting out the suspension morphed into painting the frame, etc. That said... I am like you... the results are worth it.

As for your car... when do you think will have your car done? Interestingly, I will be (or had planned) on starting the engine side of things very soon. Sadly, a whole swack of work-related projects are coming online ... all at the same time... and so my hopes of getting my car driving this season are fading... However, one must make hay when the sun shines, as they say.

Cheers,

Sam

 

Good day Pat,

Sadly, I will be unable to answer your question anytime soon, as my car is still not sitting on its own feet. The rear suspension is assembled, but the front is still completely apart and will remain so until I remove the engine and refinish the entire engine bay. Part of the engine bay refresh will be painting the frame ... and the front suspension, if assembled, will get in the way.

In terms of the overall analysis of the suspension... I never really gave it much thought until you posed the question. I just got back from vacation and so I am just catching up on work stuff... around 300 emails to go through with around 60 being important. Once I do I will review the suspension and your questions and provide some comments/feedback.

Cheers,

Sam