V-12 Engine into 308 Build, over on Grassroots

yeah....I guess there really isn't a need for both. I cold go this way too I guess

 

So I google what the dash is supposed to look like....small silver key with a fairly large black plastic bezel. Image Unavailable, Please Login

So off to the printer I guess
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Todays I played with the push to start bit and good that I did as nothing really worked the way I hoped and it became quite jumble of stuff on the bench
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But I think I got it doing what I wanted, there is a video


Then I printed an adapter for the VW button that I think came out pretty well and I was pleasantly surprised the threads worked with only minor futzing
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I sprayed it satin black, I'll see how that looks tomorrow. The black button is still on the way so I still might go that way but I think this will look closest to original.

 

Can somebody measure the OD of the stock trim piece on the ignition switch? The one I made just looks a little big so I'm wondering what stock is?

 

Mark,

53.2mm OD
32.2mm ID

 

That is for an early '77

 

Thanks! That is a huge help!

I guessed pretty close....Mine is 50mmOD, 28.5ID, for a 10.75mm wide ring vs 10.5 wide stock...but I guess the fact the mine is slightly smaller to fit the VW button makes it LOOK wider/bigger than stock. I may take 1 or 2mm off and see if I like it better, and reprint if I decide bigger was better I guess.

 

With the paint I kind of like it..not sure its worth messing with any more trying to make it better.
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I have to nerd out. What is your 3D printer rig? And what filament are you using?

 

Oh, I need to decide what to do with the LED too....it needs ground to light so I guess another relay. Its not really bright enough to see in daylight so my thought was wire it to be on with the dash lights but power on is fine too. Chatting with a buddy yesterday he offered to take a look at making a simple no relays controller box for me so I need to write down what I did for him so I'll hold on final wiring this stuff in and see about getting the CAN to steering working and I guess the ECU setup and wired for starter control.

 

Its an anycubic resin printer and I use their abs like resin. its 3 years old(?) so they don't make this particular model any more but the newer ones I'm sure are better. when we first got it we had to play with the support and attachment settings to get it to reliably stick to the build platform and not leave holes int he part where the support break off....but once we figured that out it prints really nice. I think we've gone through about 8 quarts of resin at this point with not issues and the list of printed 3-08 parts keeps growing...velocity stacks, mirror mount convers, starter button bezel, I was going to print a box for all the bits on the bench to make the button work but I'll hold to see where that ends up.

Just sold my older filament printer, never turned it on after getting this printer.

 

Here is what I built to get
touch or hold - on
touch or hold - off

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This is how I got that working, it was $26 in parts from amazon, but everything was 2 packs...so $13 used plus the button. The output of this will trigger my aux and ignition power relays. I'm planning to let the ECU handle the starter relay so it will crank until it starts or time out at maybe 5 sec for a no-start situation...or I could just connecting a starter relay directly to the button for push and hold to crank.

 

Do you have it so that it'll power on in acc mode if the interlock brake or clutch is not activated. Useful for ECU programming/reading etc without starting.

 

My ecu is only on in the ignition on position but yeah, the plan is ignition on no crank is an option.

I was planning on on ecu handling the starter..... but I'm sort of back to press and hold the button as it just gives me more control so it should work like

No brake, no security switch
-press(or hold) button = aux power on
- press(or hold) again = aux power off

No brake, security switch on
-press(or hold) button = aux + ign power on
- press(or hold) again = aux+ ign power off

Brake + security switch on
-press & hold button = aux + ign power on+crank while holding up to 5 sec about
- press(or hold) again = aux+ ign power off

I would need to add a couple timers for the push and hold cranking....I'm thinking 1/2 sec delay for fuel pressure then a time out so there is no cranking during push to stop......or I might still do ecu control of cranking......

 

This is the bit for push and hold for cranking. Note my clutch swith goes to to ground not 12v. The timer lets the ecu boot and fuel pressure come up which is nice, but also effectively locks out the starter once the button is released.

I ordered a 5 pack of 40A relays with connectors for $9, they'll come tomorrow so I can finish up the wiring. And I need to print a little box to hold the relay/timer boards.

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So you have to let the clutch out to stop engaging the starter... Hmmm... Is there a way to have the clutch simply activate a timer or feedback so that you don't have to be quick on the draw? Or is the starter relay there timed?

 

No, no.

Press and hold the button, the ignition comes on about instantly, that sends voltage to the output side of the timer relay which engages at about 1/2 sec (could be anything), the starter will crank until the button or clutch are released.

Press and hold again, the ignition shuts off about instantly killing power to the starter circuit before the time is close to finished so no cranking occurs.

It will act like a simple Press and hold button from a race car, but also cycles the ignition...almost a turn push to start but should work for any engine, no efi or ecu required...I guess the clutch switch is optional, a nice safety feature but not needed like it would be with a true push to start where it cranks until its running whether you release the button or not. Here releasing the button is the samecas releasing the key, it stops cranking.

 

Gotcha, that makes more sense. I just kinda interpreted the schematic.
The clutch interlock might sound redundant but when you get used to just pressing a button to start and forget you left it in gear one day.. Habit and all.. the interlock just ensures that extra step prevents a real "jump start" been there.. It's why I added the clutch interlock.
On the automatic modern cars the brake depress is annoying..

 

Yes. I was thinking about my kids who have never driven anything old without all the safetys....even the lawn mower has them. But 308s like most older cars don't have clutch switches, so my thought was for anyone who wants to do this, the clutchvswitchbis optional or could be replaced by a brake switch, but the brake swith is off/12v, so 1 extra low-power relay would be needed i think.

For the automatic with true push(and resease) to start, the brake is what tells the ecu if you want just the radio or you want the engine. 1 button with 1 position can do 1 thing, but radio or engine is 2 things and that needs 2 switches....so press the brake.

What i drew is a little different...push and release=radio, push and hold=engine, 1 button, 2 action, 2 results. This seems better for older cars where you kind of don't know how long it will crank and generally don't have and ecu you can have monitor that.

Time to get (re)wiring and check thisvoff the list.