car design thread | Page 780 | FerrariChat

car design thread

Discussion in 'Creative Arts' started by jm2, Oct 19, 2012.

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  1. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Two of my former bosses were responsible for the ‘59 Cadillac. They told me when they would drive the convertible version you always thought there was something creeping up on you.:eek:
     
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  2. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    And the design story continues:

    Never a Dull Moment — Part 17


    Pressure? What pressure?

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    President Ronald Reagan and GM Chairman Roger Smith. Source via the author.

    Roger Smith was so proud of the potential for Saturn, he decided to invite the then President of the United States, Ronald Reagan for a look. Among my multitude of responses was: seriously? The President? Well now, that won’t make us too visible, will it? No flying under the radar on this baby. Why don’t they just ask us to stand up sans clothing in front of the whole world and design this thing? OK, then, where do we start?

    The Advanced Studios had done a commendable job of priming the design pump by producing several full size clay models as an opening salvo. But as these things usually go, now that we had the attention of everyone watching in anticipation, maybe it would be a good idea to explore other alternatives. Could we do better? We were about to find out.

    Irv Rybicki and Chuck Jordan wanted the Saturn team to more or less start over now that everyone was serious about the programme. The plan was to have a four-door Sedan and a 2+2 coupé. With no historical brand DNA to guide us, we embraced my lifelong design philosophy of: “there is only one rule in designing a car; there aren’t any rules.” Since nothing had come before, more or less, we were free to do something that would attempt to live up to all the hype that had been heretofore promised. No small task indeed.

    We had made a commitment to what was in our minds, reinventing the wheel, when in fact it was just going to be a compact four-door sedan and a coupé. We were driven, committed and proud in knowing we had the best of everything. All we had to do was fill in the blanks.

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    Saturn Sedan/ Saturn Coupé and Roadster. ©GM Design

    Behind the scenes, Mr. Rybicki was nearing his mandatory retirement age and the rumor underground went into hyperdrive. Since Chuck Jordan hadn’t been chosen as Bill Mitchell’s replacement, everyone made the assumption that this time it would be his turn at the wheel. The smart money was on Chuck and it was during these periods of leadership transition that things got complicated. ‘Which side are you on?’ questions. My attitude was to keep my head down and focus on the task at hand until the dust settled. Sometimes, more difficult than one might imagine.

    The 1986 Eldorado/Seville had been launched to a lukewarm reception, and even though I was engaged in the Saturn experiment, I couldn’t help but feel the pain that Cadillac was going to endure. Ultimately several years later, the Eldo/Seville had a minor facelift, adding to the rear of the Eldo to fix some of the design issues, but too little, too late — the damage had been done and it was to be another wound to the once proud Cadillac brand.

    The construction of the Saturn would be a continuation of the plastic bodied Pontiac Fiero process, established several years prior. Plastic panels attached to a metal underbody. No rust, easily repaired/replaced and easily facelifted with new designs. I believed the panel gaps necessary for expansion/contraction were to be a problem, but the consensus was it was a tolerable trade off for the advantages of plastic.

    The Saturn Team worked hard to develop a strong visual theme that would be unique and distinctive within the allowable constraints and parameters. Over the course of a year and half we developed the sedan and coupé designs and in October, 1986, Irv Rybicki departed, as mandated. The Corporation then made the announcement naming Chuck as the new VP of GM Design; Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell, Irv Rybicki and now Chuck Jordan.

    Within the ranks at the Design Center, Irv had been a controversial choice for the all-important Design VP position. Chuck had believed he would be Mitchell’s successor, but things didn’t work out that way and now that Mr. Mitchell had risen to the top, the sense was that we were in for major changes at Design including personnel moves, design philosophy and a new beginning as far as Chuck Jordan was concerned. He made it clear that fun was going to be an integral part of our jobs again. No more lookalike cars and creativity would reign.

    In no time Jordan made significant personnel changes in the design organization. There were retirements and promotions. Chuck wanted to build his own team around his personal design philosophy. Exciting times for sure.

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    Full size airbrush Coupe and Roadster. ©GM Design

    In the Spring of 1987, John Schinella, Chief Designer Pontiac 2 Exterior Studio which worked on Firebird, Bonneville and Fiero, was slated to be transferred to run the Advanced GM Design Studio in California; which of course meant there would be an opening and an opportunity for a Chief Designer position. So of course I thought why not; I had ten years’ experience, a fancy schmancy Advanced Business Degree and an enthusiasm and passion for design. In my mind I was ready for the next step. Running my own studio.

    With that strategy in my head, I wasted no time in contacting Chuck’s admin to make an appointment to let him know my thoughts and to throw my hat in the ring. She made the appointment, saying I could see him on the Friday he was leaving for Europe to attend the upcoming Geneva Motor Show. Armed with all the cool things we had done in Saturn, I was prepared for a conversation about my potential to further the Design Staff mission and be an important part of Chuck’s new team.

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    GM Design VP office suite. General Motors Tech Center. ©GM Design.

    And then. I walked into that legendary office, once home to Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell and Irv Rybicki; Chuck had his feet up on the glass coffee table with his back to the Tech Center Lake. If these walls could talk, I thought. I proceeded to extol my virtues and explain why I believed I was ready for the next level to become a Chief Designer. I had paid my dues, displayed my talents and skillset and was ready for what I thought was the very important next step.

    And then suddenly it all went wrong. Big time. Chuck spent the next ten minutes railing on how I had disappointed him with my performance in Saturn and that the entire Saturn Studio needed to be completely cleaned out. He said he couldn’t have been more disappointed in the cars.

    Chuck had hired me and had believed in me and now I had let him down.

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    GM Design VP office suite. General Motors Tech Center. ©GM Design.

    And then I made a fatal error. I had the temerity to declare that I believed the cars looked great and I would put them up against any small car, anywhere. Period.

    I was staring out at the lake thinking this couldn’t be happening and yet here I was receiving the wrath of Mr. Jordan, AKA the ‘Chrome Cobra’. I felt like a piñata at a five year old’s birthday party. It was at that point he gave me ‘the look’ and I knew I was doomed. His comment was, “John, you need to go home and sit in a dark room and think about what you did in Saturn” And with that, the conversation was over.

    How could I have been so wrong with my thoughts? Now what had I done? Where would this put me? Should I consider leaving GM and search for employment elsewhere? The drive home that night still resonates to this day.
     
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  3. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Ouch! What a nightmare, John!

     
  4. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  5. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Another great one! Hindsight, but maybe if you'd lead with 'Other than the panel gaps ...'?
     
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  6. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    :rolleyes:
     
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  7. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Mr. Sketchmonkey takes on the latest Benz Concept.
     
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  8. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Never can get enough of the SketchMonkey, but . . .

    I disagree with the origin of the front end happening to mimic a Maser.

    IMHO, I believe Mercedes was trying to pay homage to the 1954 W196 Streamliner racing car:

     
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  9. energy88

    energy88 Three Time F1 World Champ
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  10. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Funny you said that. I agree, I didn’t see Maserati in that front either.
    How that front looks however is another matter.:rolleyes::eek:
     
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  11. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Maybe they copied the W196 envelope F1 car, but other than the front end it looks nice but not inspiring. He goes crazy on the tail lights, but they don't look that bad. Better than the C8's square tail lights. You can tell I am not a fan of the C8 vette, although the new versions side scoops look much better. I cringe when I see one, thinking what could have been.
     
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  12. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    I can't believe this came from their studio. Maybe they had the AI do it, just to see how it would come out.
     
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  13. F1tommy

    F1tommy F1 World Champ
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    Wow, never saw this before. Back when Volvo's were, well Volvos:rolleyes:


    From vintage European facebook


    "Volvo R172 was intended as a replacement for the 1800S in the late 1960s. The car would be significantly larger than the 1800, it would be a lavish luxury pillarless coupé with room for four adults to tour in comfort and would be classified as a grand tourer, aimed primarily at American market. But the US deales reckoned there wouldn't be enough demand for the car to justify full-scale production. Investment in tooling for the new bodyshell would have been high and there wasn't the production capacity at the Torslanda plant to build it anyway. So in 1967 the project was aborted, before a running prototype had even been built; the pictures show a clay model finished in dark blue paint and wearing Rostyle wheel trims. Several were made but it never progressed beyond the prototype stage"

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  14. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    Ferrari 400 look?
     
  15. Tenney

    Tenney F1 Rookie
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    Wonder if Ferrari was bitter ...?
     
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  16. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  17. anunakki

    anunakki Seven Time F1 World Champ
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    I dig it. Its a little awkward but definitely stands out.
     
  18. Qvb

    Qvb F1 Rookie
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    This car would have been awesome for Volvo, maybe sent them in a better direction. The top picture has some Ferrari 400 vibes but the bottom picture has something Lamborghini about it. I'm not Bitter about either one
     
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  19. Tenney

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    Partial pagoda in bottom pic, as well?

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  20. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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  21. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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    ^ do you see any of his designs today in any current car designs? maybe the raised trunk feature?
     
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  22. jm2

    jm2 F1 World Champ
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    He popularized the Flame Surfacing term. There are some designs that are using surface & lines much like his Flame Surfacing. But overall BMW walked away from most of what he had done. Their cars of the last decade came off the rails as far as I’m concerned. Looking back, his cars were ‘tame’ compared to where they evolved IMO.
     
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  23. Christian.Fr

    Christian.Fr Two Time F1 World Champ

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    Ave vigoda, in the "Godfather".
     
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  24. Edward 96GTS

    Edward 96GTS F1 World Champ
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    Flame Surfacing?
     
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