[Harry's Garage] Ferrari 296 GTS review. Brilliant in so many ways but I won't be buying one

Harry comparing the 296 ui to the RR ui was quite curious.

I wonder how he felt about the BB and then iPhone when he first used them.

 

This is the cost for Porsche batteries (link below) in their all electric cars. Hybrid batteries are much smaller and theoretically less expensive. Of course individual cells typically fail first on the all electric batteries and can be replaced for a fraction of the cost of the full battery.

Technology advances and prices fall. You have 7 years from the in service date for the technology to advance or get cheaper. And then there are extended warranties. If you amortize the cost over the life of the car it will likely be relatively irrelevant.

Ferrari knows that if they want their cars to retain strong resale values in the future the battery replacement cost cannot be prohibitive for a regular production car.

Mark my words on this.

https://www.topspeed.com/how-much-costs-replace-porsche-ev-battery/

 

I hope you're right

The LaF, 918, P1 battery issues are scary as fk

If the battery replacements are only ~15-20k then it really isn't a deal at all given replacement dampers on a 458 are a 10k usd job.

 

They can over charge for their hyper cars. Everything is much more expensive because of the limited quantity made. Ferrari knows every original buyer is way, way ahead financially so the cost of maintenance and repairs is essentially irrelevant from a total cost perspective.

The dynamics are completely different for regular production cars.

 

TYPO: The hybrid battery warranty is 8 years in the USA.

So if the battery fails in the latter years you get a free replacement toking you out that much further before you have an out of pocket expense. If one amortizes the cost it will not be significant.

Looking out 10 years the cost should be much lower and there will probably be third party alternatives.

 

Overcharging would be one thing but it's more like battery tech moves so fast that OEM replacements aren't something that you can take for granted.

Tavarish when trying to rebuilt the flood P1 just found that NOS/OEM batteries were simply unavailable.

On the other hand keeping this stuff "OEM" is just silly, again given how fast battery tech has (and likely will) advanced.

I would assume that there would be a strong business case for the aftermarket to service these things if and when the dealers/factory abandon support, now with that said, it's still additional "thing" that can and will go wrong with time.

We're already kinda seeing effects of the type "factory parts no longer available" in the 360/430 models and soon the 458 era cars will be in this bucket too. I tremble with fear for what I'll do in another 10-20 years with my 458 (it's my forever car so "selling it" really isn't a solution for me, I want to keep it until I can't drive anymore). I'm actually LESS scared about the engine than I am with the DCT or E-diff.

 

They have already announced a new battery replacement with new, modern batteries for the LaFerrari. I saw it witth my own eyes. And I know a bit about batteries as my partners and I were original investors in a battery startup that was acquired by A123,

Agree with you about your point on replacement costs. Nothing is cheap on parts replacement for a Ferrari.

Some people on this thread are suggesting that the price of battery replacement price will track what is written about Tesla, Porsche, etc. Ferrrari is using a battery system tthat is sized for 15 miles. Tesla, Porsche, etc are using battery systems sized for 300-400 miles! Thats 20x-25x larger...ummm....so there is way more cost for batteries in consumer road car EVs. An order+ of magnitude larger.

As a plus, consumer road car EVs, testing has already indicated that EV road car batteries of today will go 200K - 500K miles. So the small 15 mile battery for Ferrari is even in better shape. Will someone be very upset that there 15 mile battery has dropped off to 13 miles after 50K miles of Ferrari driving?

Like every new powertrain, there are new learnings. Battery systems are no longer rocket science.

 

I think he's both right and wrong. It is too expensive. He hated the fact that you have to turn off the ADAS stuff using menus every time you get in. I actually just leave it on and ignore it. After a while it's like a plane overhead, you hear it until it becomes routine. And if you want to turn it off it isn't such a complete faff that he made of it. It takes about 5-10 seconds. And managing the battery means just leaving it in Performance (engine on, some battery charging) all the time unless you are totally on it (Qualifying - but it has over 800 bhp so rarely necessary) or want to mooch around quietly (e-mode, which is rarely for very long). Once the battery is halfway charged it is rated for 50 days+ and I can't envisage a situation where I won't get it on the charger within 50 days given that it uses a domestic plug.

So the irritations he has kind of disappear with ownership. Of course not in a week or so of a test. Apart from cost and depreciation but I went in with eyes open.

 

The word is confidence.

I would put it as enough questions/ hesitation/ on the part of Harry, and likely other people/ that the head overwhelms the heart which says: I love how it drives, I want it. Now it’s the head saying: how much? Whats the warranty? (Indeed it is good, but, there are also several possible programs, it can be confusing, it should be clearer and frankly I think even more robust)…. Now I have to fiddle around every time to turn off these nannies “they” forced on me? And why am I lugging around all this extra weight? Oh thats right, another thing “they” forced on me. It’s just a lot of newness to consider, the answers are not all easy ones, and thus, you end up with enough people making a similar conclusion. The 296 is a great car, they did an amazing job, its just needing a little help with a few things, none of which is a major problem, but together, create just enough hesitation in the market. My recommendation would be to put in a 10 year no questions asked bumper to bumper warranty, battery test and results to the client every year, and if the battery is below a certain threshold then it gets replaced no questions asked. I suggest this because as I see it the thing thats missing in the market is confidence on the part of the prospective buyer.

 

Try to tell this to the third owner in a few years, not to mention that they will also have to add the discs, potential electronic problems because the car is far too complex to age properly at this level, the turbos... cars will pile up on the second-hand market, with no buyers in sight... the story is already written.

 

This can be said for all future sports/super cars and even everyday cars as they are all going hybrid and are all very complex. What car maker is making new analog cars other than the Singer and Gunther types?

 

What ADAS do you have to turn off every time you’re in the car? I certainly don’t. Is he referring to the clicks at like 70 MPH? I just set it to 160 mph first drive and it never resorted back

 

I don’t see any car on the horizon from any comparable manufacturer that’s not incredibly complicated. There’s nothing. I think the 296 will age pretty well.

 

$6800? my dealer is quoting me $22000 for two years...

 

I paid $6800 for a full 2 year warranty extension. I was quoted that from two different dealers. Ferrari changed their offerings this year.

 

We agree, and there is no obligation to buy them. We can indulge ourselves by looking back, the Ferrari catalog is very rich, and then over 800 hp on open roads in current traffic conditions...

 

You car has non race seats. Figure with race seats you'd drop 20 kg. So 1650 kg or so for a spec with race seats. Add carbon wheels and lose the lifter and it's 1630 kg. That's about as light as a 296 can get I'd think.

 

CORRECTION: USA federal law is 8 years. Ferrari evades this because of limited production.

Online Ferrari states 5 years.

In the warranty book it states 7 years.




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In the U.S. the hybrid warranty is for 7 years. This matches the 7 years maintenance. This does not replace battery in year 8.

The full car warranty is only 3 years. You have to buy extensions on this contract for 5 years to get the new battery.

Chet

 

Right and the fine print says you need to drive 2000 miles a year, which is not typical. It's taken something that should be straight forward and made it too confusing and involved. It was one thing to have this setup on a car like a 458. It's another with the massive increase in tech in the hybrids.

 

he doesn't know how to use it - you can turn off the nanny bits in 3 clicks. I do on mine.

 

What fine print?

There is no mileage minimum (like 2,000 miles/year), you must:

• Follow Ferrari’s charging protocols,
• Use the OEM battery tender/conditioner when the car is stored or idle,
• Stick to guidelines in the official manuals.

 

I would have to get the manual and warranty books but my recollection is if you do under 2000 miles a year you are not following Ferrari’s requirements.

My main point stands, which is they have different time cycles and requirements for different parts of the car, which does not help mitigate possible confusion. The market place does not have confidence in the long term prospects for these cars. Which I think goes to some of Harry’s points.

Over the past few weeks Ive had a few friends ask if I wouldnt mind suggesting a first time Ferrari to one of their friends, sure, no problem, in each and every case when I spoke with the person they began the conversion with “no hybrid”…. I don’t think this is merely a coincidence. It is a shame, as the car is great, but I think they now have a marketing challenge squarely in front of them, and I think a part of the solution should be a more robust and simpler warranty/maintenance program.

 

Ferrari needs to warranty the SF90/296 for 8 years with a battery change. Extend the full car warranty from 3 years to 8 years and the hybrid warranty from 5-7 years to 8 years. They will not do that, but if they did the market would solidify.
Chet

 

As much as I would like that- it’s unreasonable. 7 years for the battery and hybrid power train are fine (8 would be better).

More important would be a reasonable extended warranty and a reasonable battery replacement expense.

These batteries may last 10- 20 years. We just don’t know yet.