Old School Hi-Fi- Tubes, Horns, LPs | FerrariChat

Old School Hi-Fi- Tubes, Horns, LPs

Discussion in 'Technology' started by whart, Jul 3, 2025 at 10:30 AM.

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  1. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    Dec 5, 2001
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    William Maxwell Hart
    One of my other passions, before I even had a driver's license, was hi-fi. I've been doing this a long time, which doesn't mean I'm a guru; to the contrary, the accumulated experience over time leaves me with more questions than answers. When I got a chance to revamp my main system starting in around 2006, I also started to curate my record collection, which was substantial-- I winnowed down from around 17k LPs to about 5.5k records that are now in Texas.
    I thought some of you might be interested in seeing a system built around very old school designs, though most of the equipment is circa early 21st century, utilizing low powered single ended triode amps and extremely efficient horns. This is a photo montage of the main system (my vintage system in another room is comprised of several components I've owned for more than 50 years, which have been refurbished or restored).
    Here's the main system which is largely self explanatory. The last photo is the cleaning station and an air compressor in a silencer box - which compressor drives the air bearing arm. I've been using Koetsu stone bodied cartridges in the last several years, a company with a sort of mythological reputation which closed down a couple years ago and is now being rebooted.
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  2. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    Dec 5, 2001
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    William Maxwell Hart
  3. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    Dec 5, 2001
    6,529
    Austin, TX
    Full Name:
    William Maxwell Hart
  4. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    The more traditional record cleaning machine on the right in the last photo is a "Monks"- probably the first record cleaning machine made circa 1970. Mine is a later iteration built when the company came out of dormancy, but it is very much like the early models--it uses a German dialysis pump and a "point nozzle" which is motorized, to sweep and vacuum the grooves after application of cleaning fluid and rinse water. It does have a fluid application function which I don't use- the activator button is from a Mini car wiper system. Very "British" in its engineering but it works very effectively. (The other cleaning machine to the left is an ultrasonic designed for records).
    I'd say the biggest "investment" in all of this today is the LPs- some of the rarified jazz and early hard rock is extremely hard to find in top condition except at nutty prices. I was able to buy most of these before the prices went nuts. Starting to build a vinyl LP collection today would be much more costly and time consuming- yes, I do have some reissues, but I often prefer the OG pressing and sorting through the different shadings of sound from different masterings and pressings from different countries and eras is a time consuming job, even if you have access to numerous copies of the same LP. Virtually all of the records are in top playing condition and were cleaned using better than archival standards.
    I started a website back in 2015 devoted to LPs and learned an enormous amount in researching and writing as well as in editing-- the site hosts a 200 page book (for free) written by a Naval engineer, Neil Antin, who developed the Mil-Spec for cleaning 02 systems on submarines. It is now the standard reference for record cleaning.
    I still write periodically-- several essays are in the National Recording Registry and I'm hoping to soon publish a recent interview of a legendary bassist who performed on well over 400 records during the peak era of the "spiritual" or "soul" jazz movement in the early '70s.
    I'll leave you with a close up of the turntable which sits on an electron microscope platform to minimize vibration:
     

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  5. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jan 27, 2006
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    The original Fernando
    I've always wanted the setup used in the series 'Bosch':
    Mcintosh MX-110 tuner/preamp, Mcintosh 240 amp, Marantz 6300 turntable, Ohm speakers.

    I can do without the Ohm speakers, I have a turntable that is the same or better than the Marantz,
    (and someone walked away with my Stanton 881s cartridge so I am stuck with an Ortofon,
    a Grado and a Stanton 681EEE)

    My PROBLEM is I don't use the stuff I already have - Yamaha, Nakamichi, Kenwood TT, Polk and Yamaha speakers,
    Denon CD player....
    TT was a Sony PS-x6, but it somehow died, and I inherited a Kenwood KD-7700 - which you can hardly find anymore.

    And getting a Bose Waveradio didn't help me (listen to my stuff above)
     
  6. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    I use the MX110z in my vintage system downstairs with a pair of Quad II amps using real GEC KT66s, driving a pair of Quad Loudspeakers (the first full range electrostatic, introduced 1957). All of that gear was restored by the late Bill Thalmann, who used to be the Tech Director for Conrad-Johnson. The vintage system relies on a Technics SP-10, which was a broadcast table that I bought new in 1973. I've owned the Quad loudspeakers since 1974 and bought the McI simply b/c it was far cheaper than a Marantz 7 tube or ARC SP3-a-1 (the latter was part of my 1975 system).
    The vintage system does not play as loud as the big system, does not go down to the nether regions in the bass, as does the big system shown above, but what bass is there is very taut and coherent. As mentioned, the vintage system essentially recreates what I was running in 1975, though throughout the years, that system evolved into a mini HQD system (subwoofer and Decca ribbon tweeters), and then changed again. I used ARC tube amps since 1975, but finally changed out in the big system circa 2006 when I bought the SET amps used upstairs. Those were made by the late Vlad Lamm in Brooklyn, weigh about 70 lbs each and put out a robust 18 watts each. They use an old Russian triode that was found in MIGs and ICBMs. Vlad migrated to the US and loved living in the States- was a good man and a genius. Designed all of his equipment in his head, using algorithms he developed- he never listened, tested, tweaked, to voice his electronics. His loss was sorely felt by the hi-end community of high efficiency, single ended triode lovers.
    FWIW, a lot of the records the Bosch character chased are in the spiritual jazz vein- Horace Tapscott, for example. The original TV series also constantly relied on Art Pepper's "Patricia" recorded with Cecil McBee, Roy Haynes and Stanley Cowell and is a gorgeous piece of straight-ahead jazz. It was a cool show, the house was cool too. Thanks for your comments.
     
  7. Whisky

    Whisky Three Time F1 World Champ
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    The original Fernando
    Very nice.

    The main reason I don't go whole-hog into a new (old) system is I am totally deaf in 3 octaves
    in one ear, and have tininitus to boot, it's hard for me to tell much of a difference in most systems.
    With that said, I can't justify spending the $$$$$$$$, but if I won the Lottery then I'd buy stuff
    just to be buying it.
    Problem is, one must play the lottery to have a chance at winning it, and I seldom play.

    I do know that a lot of the old guitar amps that use tubes - and certain tubes are only
    made in Russia anymore - some are very hard to get at any price.
     
  8. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    #8 whart, Jul 5, 2025 at 10:09 PM
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2025 at 10:21 PM
    The facts are: the uber high end is now crazy money- 500k DACs, mono amps at 170k per, turntables for over 300k without an arm or cartridge, let alone some of the top rated speakers. I quit reading the audio press years ago, and for a while, vintage equipment made sense, building a system and upgrading as you go. Even that has gotten to be far more expensive and frankly, a lot of modest digital gear sounds better than the middle of the road hi-fi from the '70s or '80s. (Yeah, there are some choice pieces from the old days, but they are beaucoup today too).
    For someone who is not going to devote a lot of money, time and effort (much is in the listening, seat time, exposure to what a good system is capable of reproducing when effectively set up in a given room), we're reduced to playing from streaming services (some sound pretty good, though they don't have the depth of catalog in jazz for me) and simple digital electronics that don't take up a lot of space or require much tuning (DSP is used now for more than home theater set up and can help enormously, especially in the bass or where there are room interactions with the sound).
    The point of the thread was really to show what a top tier old school system is about-- and much of it is a labor of love, built over years of upgrading and listening. I'm now in a happy place-- I can enjoy listening without worrying about whether the system is doing something wrong.
    But, anybody who has done this will tell you there's always another mountain to climb. I've largely gotten off the hamster wheel and wanted to share what that was about. And since F-Chat is about gear of sorts, here's a shot of the one of the Lamms, and a close up of one of the cartridges as well as a photo of a pretty rare rectifier tube that is part of the power supply to the phono stage:
     

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  9. SCFerrari

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    Nice gear !
     
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  10. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    There was a guy on the Net for a while, Rockitman, who was a cool guy- in deep on hi-fi, and liked sports cars. Some years ago, he said "well, the latest complete set of wires (full loom) from the company I use will cost around 200k (probably double that now), or I could buy a Porsche GT3 RS (or whatever the non-turbo hot 911 model was at the time)." He bought the Porsche. :)
     
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  11. SCFerrari

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  12. whart

    whart F1 Veteran
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    The Trios are fabulous. I haven't heard the latest version. You are playing in the same sandbox with high efficiency speakers. Most people think horns sound nasty. They can if not set up properly or the upstream gear doesn't take full advantage of what a super sensitive loudspeaker can deliver. Your room looks great!
     

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