Why does "everyone" prefer the 458 over the 488?

Well thanks for explaining the details of it. I'm not sure which part of that Mandalay was talking about,
And obviously, I oversimplified it because (as I mentioned), I have no idea about this stuff.

I was responding to this part after you said that there was no way that you can physically have boost at idle:
"Yes, anti-lag systems can help a turbocharger produce boost when the driver is off the throttle, including during circumstances that would normally lead to very low exhaust flow, such as IDLE or deceleration".
So not sure if any of that is wrong, or if I just didn't understand the specifics of what you guys were talking about.
All this turbo talk is above my pay grade, lol. I'm just here trying to learn a thing or two.

 

Once upon a time there was google and still is. Now there is AI , Chat gpt. Im correct he is wrong. Oh well.

 

On the Ferrari 488 GTB, there are multiple pressure sensors used to monitor and control boost — and their location is key to understanding why you might see positive pressure at idle.

Primary Boost Pressure Sensor Locations on the 488 GTB (F154CB engine):
1. Charge Air Pressure Sensor (MAP/Boost Sensor) — Pre-Throttle

• Location: In the charge pipe or intercooler outlet, before the throttle body.
  
  
• Purpose: Measures boost pressure generated by the turbo before it enters the intake manifold.
  
  
• Result: This sensor can and often does read positive pressure at idle, especially on a high-performance turbo like the 488 GTB's, where the ECU keeps the turbos mildly spooled up even at low RPM.

Bonus Note: Ferrari 488 uses a torque-request strategy, not traditional throttle control. So the ECU may keep turbo pressure available and use throttle and spark to manage torque, which can lead to non-intuitive boost readings.

Ferrari has done an awesome job on their Turbo engines. Any reference to 80's 4 cylinder pots is nonsense. Ferrari knew from the start they would be scrutinised and they were . The verdict virtually no Turbo lag.

V8 or V6 with this amount of power the obvious choice is Turbo not N/A. Well it is if you wish to keep your license.

 

100% agree with you and very well writen. Except postive boost at idle, Unless you are talking about with launch control engaged. The boost gauge reading will not show positive boost, in fact takes a bit to see +1 psi. You will notice the lag off the line even with ESC off unless the car is already moving or launch control is engaged. From 2nd gear car is already moving, there is no lag and it can break tires loose from rolling.

I daily drove 488 and put on 15kish miles first year. My only dislike with the car is its responds off the line, if the car is moving virtually lag free, it was powerful enough back then for me, blast to drive, easy to control. It also has invisible early fuel cut off where if manual shifting, rev limiter will kick in before reaching redline in first gear.

I am quite picky when it comes to instant responds. I recall while driving home in 488 back in 2018, a kid in model 3 performance was driving next to me for a while, then we came to a stop at stoplight. Light turn green, the kid jump out of hole, I just drove normally. Judging by how instant he jumpped off line even if I had prepared and gone for it, by the time my 488 starts to really move after I press the gas pedal, he is minimum 1 to 1.5 bus length ahead. I could certainly catch up and pass him, but by then it be 80mph.

Drive a 488, side step, floor it, or any method to get the car off line quickly. You will notice the lag or delay. If I remember correctly boost gauge can be displayed on left side, the reading will not show +1 or even 0 psi at idle. I have not driven Pista, but they improved it massively in F8, feels super instant. I replaced 488 with F8 because of that, and even sounded better to me despite GPF.

 

It's most definitely wrong, also in general don't trust AI results on technical matters

To have boost (meaning pressure above ambient) you

You can't have boost at idle, boost by definition is above ambient pressure.

Think about what would happen if you had ambient pressure in the intake manifold in an NA car, it would mean you were at full throttle.

 

Measuring pressure before the throttle body is meaningless.

Sure it might read something above ambient at idle... Because the throttle body is closed

If you gingerly take off the intake will be at partial vacuum because the turbo won't be spooled so you'll have a slight vacuum in the same location, that makes no sense as a "boost" figure

Meanwhile, at the intake manifold, idle would show near vacuum at idle and I increase to ambient and then positive pressure as throttle as applied and flow increases, this makes sense.

The boost figure you're looking at in no way is reflective of what actually matters, which is how much airflow going into the cylinders.

 

The 1psi you see if boost pre throttle is likely just a calibration error

You need to do work to produce boost, at idle there's by definition the minimum amount of gas/energy being expended to just keep the engine from stalling.

The turbine wheel will still spin (and thus compressor will as well) but this is a MINIMUM flow state of the engine.

If your throttle is closed, by definition everything pre throttle is effectively just ambient pressure.

Everything post throttle will be near vacuum

As soon as you crack the throttle open a little you'll see a drop in pressure pre throttle as flow increases and it will continue to stay below ambient until the turbine spools up enough that the compressor can generate real boost (pressure above ambient at the manifold)

 

I've owned a McLaren and even with a $12,000 exhaust system it sounded like a vacuum cleaner. It was bad, in fact, I sold the car over it. Everyone who says a 488 doesn't sound good hasn't heard one with a inconel exhaust. Stainless, Titanium and Inconel all have different tones. Inconel being the best and unfortunately, most expensive.

The 458 doesn't sound good with just any exhaust setup either. Some go too far and it sounds like a raspy ricer from the 90's. There is a balance to finding the right tone under load.

 

apparently the key is to have an equal length long tubed stepped 4-1 headers with a x-pipe but ill fully admit that in this space i'm wayyyyyyy out of my element and i'm simply regurgitating something i read somewhere

again, something i heard somewhere is that sometimes the less good sounding exhaust is the one that makes more power (i guess mathematically that HAS to be true but my guess is what the source meant was this happens more often than not so is a legitimate tradeoff that you have to make)

 

I'm not sure which world you live in where everything you read on google is true. There is more misinformation and non facts on google than there are truths. Even if it 'comes up first', doesn't mean it's right.

however, on this specific topic, I have no idea which is correct but Knifedge's explanations seem to make the most mechanical sense.

 

I have had several cars tuned with MoTec. Second look at your gauges and see the positive pressure in the charge pipe.

Suggesting it is an error is ridiculous.

Ferrari has done an awesome job in its ECU's. The fact that a 3.9 litre twin turbo can hold perfect Idle at 750 rpms is amazing.

I have never denied that an engine will have a negative at closed throttle however there is a thing called a bypass valve which anyone who has tuned an engine will testify it takes a VERY long time to get it right.

Either way the 488GTB has virtually no lag and given all the torque is a much better engine to have whilst still enjoying your license.

All the mid cars have their own sounds. Different yes , Ones that are louder yes . But the 488 GTB sounds great and in a field of modern cars today you know when a 488GTB is coming down the road.