355 F1 will not start | Page 2 | FerrariChat

355 F1 will not start

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by Cchris0411, Nov 26, 2006.

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  1. Motob

    Motob Formula 3
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Nov 11, 2003
    2,389
    Frederick, Maryland
    Full Name:
    Brian Brown
    Ok, It's time to figure this one out.
    What do we know? The car ran before the service, so something has been changed during the service that has caused the engine to not run.

    We know the engine has spark, if quick-start spray is sprayed into the intake, the engine will run. In order to have spark the Motronic control unit must have power, ground, speed and phase sensor inputs. If the Motronic control unit has all of the information to generate a spark, then it should also fire the injectors, but it doesn't. What are the possible causes?

    1: No power to the injectors. There is a relay under the passenger footplate that supplies power to the injectors. If you unplug the connector at the fuel injectors, there should be constant 12V power on one pin of each injector connector with the ignition key on. If there is no power, you need to trace the problem back to this relay.

    2: No ground to the injectors. When the Motronic control unit fires the injector, it grounds the other pin on this injector connector. You can purchase a little light (known as a "Noid Light") that will plug into the injector connector in place of the injector, so you can see the injector pulse, or you can just listen for the injector clicking with a mechanic's stethoscope. The Motronic control unit gets its ground from the wiring harness that grounds at the rear of the 1-4 cam cover/head. If this is disconnected/loose, it will cause the injector to not fire.

    Check which symptom you have, and we will go from there.

    What relay did you replace and why did you replace it?

    Brian B.
     
  2. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    No pulse to the injectors.
    No turn-on signal to the fuel pump relay.

    ...but, you've got spark because the engine turns after spraying starter fluid. That tells me that the Motronic ECUs aren't dead and aren't purposefully disabling the engine (e.g. shutting down banks).

    The obvious remaining single cause of both "no injector pulse" and "no fuel pump relay turn-on signal" would be the fuel pump inertia switch (and they do fail).
     
  3. Cchris0411

    Cchris0411 Rookie

    Jul 5, 2005
    46
    Naples, FL
    Full Name:
    Christopher
    Thank you for the reply, I have no power to any of the injectors, all relays under the kick panel check out as ok. Could you tellme more about the fuel pump inertia switch.
    Thanks
     
  4. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1104040,parttype,10756

    That bad boy stops your fuel pump if you are in an accident that kills the motor.
     
  5. Cchris0411

    Cchris0411 Rookie

    Jul 5, 2005
    46
    Naples, FL
    Full Name:
    Christopher
    Where exactly is this switch located?
    Thanks
     
  6. Cchris0411

    Cchris0411 Rookie

    Jul 5, 2005
    46
    Naples, FL
    Full Name:
    Christopher
  7. kirill

    kirill Formula Junior

    Jul 8, 2004
    584
    Illinois
    Full Name:
    Kirill
    How old is GAS ? It starts to decompose after 3 months if you didn't add Stabil to it.
     
  8. 62 250 GTO

    62 250 GTO F1 Veteran

    Jan 9, 2004
    7,765
    Nova Scotia Canada
    Full Name:
    Neil
    That's BS a car will run on gas over a year old easily. It may stumble a bit on start up but once it's running and warming up, it'll be fine.
     
  9. Cchris0411

    Cchris0411 Rookie

    Jul 5, 2005
    46
    Naples, FL
    Full Name:
    Christopher
    The gas is all new.
    The issue here is simple. No injector pulse and no fuel pump acivation.
    All fuses and relays are working.
     
  10. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
    2,446
    North of TO
    Full Name:
    Guido
    Was reading to find the eventual fix for this but then the thread ended with no result. I know this is an old thread but would be nice to know what was wrong as im having a problem with no injector pulse as well.
     
  11. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,531
    Sydney
    Full Name:
    Ian Riddell
    Is that the only symptom?
    So you have cranking, you have fuel pressure (fuel pump is running) and you have spark?

    FWIW, the 355 does not have an inertia switch. These first appeared on the 360 and V12's.
     
  12. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,041
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Seem like an immobilizer problem.
     
  13. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    F1?
    Motronic 5.2 (with immobiliser)?
     
  14. GerryD

    GerryD Formula 3

    May 5, 2010
    2,446
    North of TO
    Full Name:
    Guido
    2.7 , no immobilizer. New fuel pump, its not the crank position sensors or the relays and there is spark.
     
    Qavion likes this.
  15. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
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    Feb 20, 2015
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    Ian Riddell
    #40 Qavion, Jul 12, 2025
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2025
    Do you have 12 volts at the injectors with the key on?

    If you have, then it's an ECU trigger issue, not a power issue.

    (EDIT: is it one bank or both?)
     
  16. Qavion

    Qavion F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 20, 2015
    14,531
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    Ian Riddell
    If injector relays O and L are working, than you should have power going to the injectors.
    Relay O and L should also illuminate the CEL/SDL lights on startup.
    Relay O and L also send power to the coils of the respective fuel pump relays (P & M). The pump relays also provide power to the O2 heaters.
    Relay O and L should send power to things like the MAF, Cat ECU and Idle Speed Regulators.

    I'm told you don't need cranking to get the pumps to work (like you do on the 5.2).
     
  17. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,673
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    No Immo, two ECUs, should be simple enough to figure out what is not running.
     
  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    20,041
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Wait..did I miss somthing? How is an F1 355 not a 5.2 car?
     
  19. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
    Consultant

    Nov 29, 2001
    13,673
    San Carlos, CA
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    Mitchell Le
    tbakowsky likes this.

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