430 F1 Pump and Accumulator

Hello,

This is my first post (and hopefully in the correct forum). I recently bought an F430 only to be told by two different mechanics that the F1 Pump and Accumulator (as well as the oil/water pump) needed replaced. I'm from the St. Louis area. The price quoted for remove and replace for the F1 pump and accumulator was $8,121.12 and the price for a remove and replace water/oil pump was $7,156.67.

Are these reasonable rates from anyone's experience? I know repairs on these are expensive. I also have the cash. I realize that I would need a lift to DIY the water/oil pump. But can someone like me who is moderately inclined handle replacement of the accumulator and F1 pump? I'm looking at step by step instructions here on the forum and some Youtube videos and it doesn't look like it's that complicated at all.

 

@flash32 Helped me with the accumulator and F1 issue. I opted to have my indy do it, but it was nowhere near that much. I think it was around $1k for me but I have a converted manual and don't think I needed to do the F1 pump. I would talk to flash.

As for the oil/water pump, I bought the kit here from the forum and had my indy repair it instead of replace it. Still cost about $2500, but much better than the 7k you are quoted. You need a cool indy though that will try this out, but mine was quite open to it and afterwards wanted to buy a bunch of kits to do on other cars. Keep in mind you need some other parts from Eurospares to complete the rebuild kit.

 

On the F1 Pump, they are quoting the cost of the pump motor and pump. The mechanical pump head rarely ever fails, the electrical motor does. This is a DIY job. I am not a DIY'r and I did it in 45 minutes! I doubt the accumulator needs to also be replaced, but you can do this first inexpensively and see if it solves the issues you may have been having.

Buy the pump motor here ($377): https://www.ebay.com/itm/267123944678 and follow these directions:

You can replace the F1 pump motor without disconnecting the hydraulic lines from the pump head:

1) unscrew two fastening torx screws on the pump head

2) separate the pump head from electric motor

3) unscrew three screws by which the original electric motor is attached to the subframe

3) transfer the torque connector to the new electric motor and align the shaft in the pump head

4) attach the pump head and tighten it with the same two screws.

That's all, you are done!

Here is a video on the above process although he’s installing one with heat radiators/fins that prove to be temporarily problematic as you will see: .

As for replacing the accumulator, I thought I had to do that 25,000 miles ago on my F430, but its still going strong. I did look to see if I could do that as well, and it looked like I could. Here is a video on DIY'ing it:

Good luck!

 

Thanks guys! I think I will try replacing the F1 pump motor first to see if that fixes the issue (random slow down error when in first gear).

 

Let me know if you need me ..send me a PM if you like

 

IMHO opinion my first guess would not be a bad pump ...a proper diagnosis is needed not to waste money ..
The pumps on 2006+ models are pretty strong
There are areas that cause the slow down light ...bad accumulator, bad clutch solenoid, bad E-diff solenoid
The pump is not the usual issue unless you have a 2005 and even than the slow down is probably not caused by that

 

What is wrong with the oil/ water pump- is it dripping from the tell tails.

 

A call to flash could save you lots of $$. I’ll venture a guess that you won’t have to spend a fraction of that amount on your F1 system. We’ve seen it here plenty of times where people toss lots of money at problems without a fix.

 

If you do a quick search through here, I rebuilt my oil pump / water pump. There are some.... peculiarities... with removing it. And removing the snap ring on one side to remove the impeller is a bit of a bear. However it's a pretty easy job and thousands less than just buying an entire new one which is likely what they're quoting. The kit that I bought was from AW Italian - I have about a thousand miles on it with zero leaks or issues. There is a user here who also sells kits and he's quick to respond to email.

As for the F1 related stuff, and hour call with flash32 will absolutely save you a ton so I have nothing further to add on that topic.

- Shane

 

True. We are talking about the electrical pump motor, not the pump head. If the motor were to burn out, as mine did, the car won't even go into gear. I am curious, how long does the pump run when you open the driver side door?

 

Sorry for the delayed reply. It is a 2005 actually so I believe it has the older F1 pump model. Assembly #60979. I took to the Ferrari dealership first which literally quoted me $50k worth of suggested maintenance only 2 weeks after I bought it (PPI report had indicated all was fine so that was thrilling). I took to another mechanic. The new mechanic ran diagnostics and said the pump motor was underperforming. Not by a great amount, but still underperforming. So he recommended new pump motor and accumulator. I had him check the solenoid which he said was ok.

When opening the driver’s side door the pump seems to run about 5-6 seconds on average.

Assuming I do have the older F1 pump do I really need to upgrade to newer model? I’d rather just take the suggestion and put in a new motor and give it a try.

 

You don't have to change to new motor .. just buy this off ebay and maybe replace every 5-7 years
here is the listing ..double check fitment
https://www.ebay.com/itm/162858358100?_trkparms=ni_actn:nav|ni_nt:WATCHITM_GTC|ni_apos:1|ni_sg:1|ni_pos:1|ni_st:NEW|ni_wh:1|ni_nid:688973602755|ni_nsid:162858358100|ni_bn:1&_trksid=p2380424.m570.l5997

a decent pump and good accumulator will run 3-4 second ( not door open) but on every recycle

 

Flash would you advice replacing this part anyway every 5-7 years just to avoid issues, even when there are none at the moment?

 

I am not one to change things before they show signs of an issue ..if you monitor and listen you will know way before the pump goes ...the sound as it reaches top pressure will be so apparent in the garage before you start the car ..you will know

So I don't think I would advise that
I am in the school of if it ain't broken don't touch it ...one caveat if I have a whole system opened for other issues I might do certain things

E.g. change accumulator when changing a solenoid etc

 

What is wrong with the oil / water pump

 

These pump motors are the same as the BMW SMG pump motors in the 335i. Same part numbers and manufacturer (Marelli).

 

Hey guys,

So I went ahead and bought a new pump motor. This is the one I bought: https://awitalian.com/product/f1-hydraulic-gearbox-pump-motor-247223m/
Based on my research this is a direct replacement for the early 2005 pump motor. I just installed it today. I followed the directions above and (1) unplugged the power connector, (2) removed the two torx screws, and (3) then I unbolted the three hex screws and the old pump motor came off. New pump motor went on the same way. While the hex bolts were tricky to get to, overall simple operation.

Car won't start.

No priming when I opened the door. Then when the key went in the ignition I got new warnings not seen before including more "Slow Down" errors. Also I can hear what sounds like the pump running or trying to run? I'm not sure.

Here are two video clips of what is going on:

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/cexy7pef83l64spz7gf8q/IMG_0631.MOV?rlkey=pklreiqxg04i6edx1ql7hq3qq&st=mis35n5x&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/jdsr37fpchnjwb7392au4/IMG_0632.MOV?rlkey=9avxx3fhbvizr1hu6vbsljcn5&st=qrspofxe&dl=0

I'm not a mechanic so any help appreciated. Thanks.

 

Look at your pm ..sent my number ..best to call me later and we will figure it out

 

Can't pm you ..send me a PM with your number and we can talk

 

flash32: Appreciate the very quick response. I dug a little deeper and figured out exactly what happened. There is a separate piece that is circular and black (I'm calling it a coupling for lack of its official name). This "coupling" joins the motor with the pump head. This part was completely not on my radar as it did not come with the pump motor. So during the time I'm connecting the pump head and the motor this coupling must have fell out into the abyss (the deep cavity in the rear passenger's side below the pump). Since the pump head business end is facing away from me while trying to join the motor I didn't see what happened. I ended up bolting everything together the first time without the coupling. So the pump head and the motor weren't even connected.

So I found the coupling and managed to dig it out. Reconnected everything and the car fired right up. I didn't get a chance to push it to see if the new motor solved my Slow Down error, but at least I managed to figure out the problem.

For future reference for others the "coupling" I'm referring to looks a little bit like this (taken from a Youtube video disassembly of a 360 pump):





Image Unavailable, Please Login

 

ok - test the times again
Very easy tests
Key on / engine off .. how many minutes between pump cycles - disregard first one
How many shifts do you get brake on / key on / engine off - n to 1 to n to 1 - count them for every pump cycle - disregard first cycle
How many second ( must be exact here ) does pump run when do the above
Turn car on / engine on and repeat first test - may need to listen carefully or use diag tool and monitor hyd pressure
Drive 25 on a straight road .. without touching anything ( no shifts, no brakes, no accel) and see how long pump stays off

Givee us that and we can tell if everything is fixed or not

PS - since you have taxed the electrical system with too many pump cycles .. I would advise to buy a new f1 relay as well --

 

The pump you pointed to isn't for a 2005 .. just making a note here for future lookers .. I posted another ebay link above that points to a complete pump/motor assembly for a 2005

 

I would like to try to rebuild a 430 Accumulator. Does anyone have a confirmed bad one they can send me? I will pay shipping.

 

flash32: I finally got around to doing the engine off tests tonight.
Key on/engine off and ignoring first cycle: 7:47 minutes between cycles.
Pump cycle time is 2.46 seconds.
Brake on/key on/engine off (starting with N): No shifts at all between cycles. Does it matter whether you start the test with N or 1?

I didn't run the engine as I still have not replaced or rebuilt the water pump and I really don't know for sure how bad or how little it is leaking.

I did run the car following the pump motor replacement and absolutely no Slow Down errors.

 

7:47 is good
2.46 is a tad low but maybe iirc you had a non OEM pump so maybe ok
Pump cycling ever shift is not good
At this point I would take this off line and get on a call with me