Is a manual to be prefered?

Personally I would not convert a 599 to manual - having one of the latest iterations of the F1 system, the 599 is a consistent package.
To get the specific feelings of a pure manual transmission, it's better to go for a car that was designed with it - converting a 355 makes sense, because the F1 system was then still lacking development, but on later cars it becomes less and less relevant as the system was refined (and the cars were designed around it).

 

I have a 612, so it's not a direct comparison. But I really like the F1 gearbox in my car and I wouldn't think of converting it to manual. Privately, I suspect that the F1-to-manual conversion will end-up hurting the value of the car. It will no longer be original. But every situation is different, so do what your heart tells you!

 

You say 599 and single clutch. I believe the 599 has a dual plate dry clutch.

 

I am complete agreement with @LVP488. The F1 on the 599 is fantastic. Best of both worlds, still feels raw like a manual but much faster gear changes. Especially with the HGTE. I recently read in Cavallino that the downshifting was intended to mimic F1 cars, i.e., pulling the left paddle toward you without releasing shifts gears down progressively in the fastest manner as if you were entering a hairpin on a track.

 

John, you are correct.

599 has 2 discs and is a classy "single" clutch system.
348holland meant the classy single clutch system, not the dual clutch system from later models like F12.


Daniel

 

It’s an absolutely great time in manual form. Epic machine.

 

The problem with this thread is that I doubt you’ll have any problem finding owners who genuinely don’t wish for a manual conversion, which I can genuinely understand. Such owners will have plenty of good reasons why they legitimately prefer the F1.

What you’re looking for is someone who’s done the conversion, but secretly regrets it. The self selection that goes along with buying a manual car or paying for a conversion means that it’s unlikely people are going to regret such a decision. If the conversion was done well (and evidence on here would suggest that not all are), then owners are very likely to be happy with their decision.

In terms of value, the number of cars being converted compared with the total number produced is still tiny, so anyone in the market for an unmolested F1 car will never be struggling for choice. Long term then, I can’t see a well executed conversion hurting the value of the car.

 

Robin- I agree, and Trev's work on the TCU and Motronic ECUs and extremely well-done aftermarket parts makes the rod conversions superior to the OEM 3-pedal cars. At least until they upgrade their software to Trev specs. Owners likely find it difficult to mess with an OEM 3-pedal car worth over $500K, though.

 

I would think if you use the car only sparingly and not in city traffic the allure of a manual box is tempting. However in reality I just dont see how a human can be as good as the computer in shifting gears. I will admit that the F1 box is not good at stop and go, and in some situations where you only need a short burst and then have to go back to idle... again in traffic. but in all other aspects I think for me its superior. On track, there is no way I want to have to time downshifts with all that torque... it takes solid concentration to just drive it in F1 mode vs. having to shift as well. The full Automatic mode does not drive well... it shifts too early and is jerky... its much better when you use the paddles.

 

Agreed for track driving. I would say though that if you're doing lots of track driving, then the 599 isn't the car for you.

 

Having used my 360 and my 599 as a DD in Silicon Valley, I can tell you that they are fine in traffic. You need to pay attention so that you fully engage the clutch. THEN, don't tap the brakes unless necessary. That means let off the gas and maintain a gap. It will idle along, clutch fully engaged, at under 10 mph. That makes traffic very manageable, assuming you pay attention. It just isn't a big issue. NOTE: that assumes everything is well set up. Use the best mechanic you can find and the F1 is pretty much a dream to drive. Plus, don't treat it like an automatic. Terrible idea and probably the cause of most distress about the F1 in traffic.

 

100% agree with all of these points. I find the F1 system in my car to be an absolute pleasure. It feels like a very robust and well-engineered system. I have worked hard to educate myself on how it is put together and how it is designed to work. I pay close attention to its operation, always. And I treat it with respect. I think a lot of the complaints of the F1 system come from cars that aren't properly set up and maintained, and/or owners who don't properly operate the system. By the way, my experience is that it does not require much maintenance at all, once properly set up. Routine F1 fluid changes is about it.

 

When you drive the F1 aggressively, the system prevents you from overreving in downshifts, its another benefit. How many time I found myself with a refused downshift because my rpms were still too high for the change, so maybe I am a poor driver but in a manual it would be blown up engine. I would also question the safety of changing gears at high RPM in curves, the stability of the car will be impacted by the mass transfer you create by clutching. I am sure a manual 599 is nice on an easy drive but if you want to see the full potential of the 599 you have to have the F1 box

 

There's very little difference in performance. So a few hundred milliseconds slower per shift but there's momentum so it's not directly subtracted from a lap time.

Look at porsche manual vs pdk lap time differences. A slight difference isn't going to sway my preference from manual transmission.

 

Yea a 1/4 sec off power every shift couldn't possibly change performance. And remember, the PDK didn't shift very quickly. That minimizes the difference.

 

As I said, it does, barely. You don't just come to a halt it loses a few hundred milliseconds of acceleration. A huge consideration on a race car but not a 599 . PDK and a 599 are what, 100 milliseconds.

Ah yeah, you aren't exactly going to be lapping manual trans cars, lmao.

 

In my opinion, this post is far more theoretical than reality. The limits of the 599 are SO high for street driving; there's no way to truly extract the "full potential" of a 599 outside of a racetrack (an environment it's not exactly meant to live either). I find the car in gated form to just feel right, and I've never found myself driving so frantically and out of control that that I've mistakenly rowed into a lower gear at too high an RPM. With gears as long as the 599's, you aren't exactly rowing up and down 2-6th in quick succession on any single road, let alone doing so in a frenzied blur where you need to explode of out a corner. I'm sure there are some examples here where it could happen... maybe downshifting into 1st, which I've never done in my life over 5mph in any manual car.

Plus, as it relates to mass transfer when clutching... there's less mass in a manual which helps!

 

To each his own. I’m a manual transmission lover. I own an Aston Martin V12 Vantage 6MT and an M2 Comp 6MT. Plus both of my kids drive manual transmission cars by my choice. That said, I personally would not convert my 599. I think it’s more about the risk of bastardizing the car to me. Plus I really enjoy the F1 SF transmission in the 599. I totally get it for those who have converted, but it’s just not my personal preference for this vehicle.

 

I hear you, and I agree with you except for one nuance: OEM vs Non-OEM conversions. In my opinion, an OEM conversion does not bastardize the car; OEM conversions use original Ferrari parts designed by Ferrari for the Ferrari they are installed in, using the gated manual provisioned chassis... built by Ferrari. This is a comprehensive result that matches the Ferrari blueprint for a gated car in every single way. In many ways, the F1 is a modified version of this car - many areas of the gated cars' chassis are plugged in F1 cars as they are not used for F1 (like the clutch master cylinder hole in the front firewall and the section of the transmission tunnel where the turret the solid linkage connect) - but they exist in every 599 that rolled out of the factory. No modifications to the car are necessary to do the work (aside from the optimized ECU by Trev).

F1 in the 599 is indeed great, and great fun - I totally agree. And a non-OEM 599 conversion, especially those with shift cables, are definitely bastardized. But true OEM conversions, again in my opinion, are fully defensible and genuine original facsimile of gated cars that rolled off the assembly line. Not at all like cut Daytonas, for example.