Replacement Update for SF90 (849 Testarossa revealed)

maybe the 'snow shovel' front end is becoming a 'thing'
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Agree. 849 in black looks pretty sexy too

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Hard for me to comment with any authority as I have not driven any of those cars. However, none of them are remotely light. A Mclaren at a little over 3000lbs is light, a Ferrari at 800 lbs more is not. The extra weight is coming in great degree from the electrics and structure built to house that extra weight. If you like lithe cars, especially tracking cars this is not the way to go.

As for that extra 15% downforces, my point is that its a large aesthetic price to pay for a pretty minimal gain that is likely only to be apparent at speeds and skill levels attainable on very high speed tracks like nubering in a pros hands. In fact if you look at the downforce attainable in pretty much any road car, even a GT3 Rs its pretty minimal and more as an aid to stability. Im thinking Ferrari could have far more elegantly achieved that 15% or maybe only 10%, its the aesthetic compromises the firm is making in paper performance uber Alles thats a question.

But thats just me, I think the GMD cars are where its at, ferrari Lambo are just showy and executing lazy options for speed.power, but they are serving their client base.

Personally Id love to see ferrai making some notionally "slower" "better" cars as prioche does with the Gt3 which si quite clearly "slower" than a turbo. In that regard how about a 296 without electrics and weighting 500lbs less. or this new car with a NA v12 or TTv8. Now I know they cant do that in europe, but the usa and the rest of the world is a large market. I also know as long as Ferrari has a big subscription to whatever they trot out they will not do the hard work. But as we see the sf 90 was not a great seller, and the 296 has been a bit sticky on the showroom floor, so perhaps there will be a rethink to making some more pure driver's cars.

Im betting that in the flesh, that 848 going to look great. The orig Testarossa had plenty of critics in period, If i remember correctly some of the styling was called a cheap trick, esp the fake intake in the front and the car was considered overly large/wide.

 

The front end could use a little work, and the black stripes are a cheap trick which indicates some disharmony. But yes its fresh with classical cues and this is just ver 1.0.

 

It is quite sad to see that most discussions devolve in criticisms related to values used as a metric in order to gauge the true “worth” of these cars and their market acceptance, the true fact is that IMO they aren’t correlated, the market is dictated by other forces not necessarily based how good or bad these cars are to drive or live with, I am yet to hear of any owners with long term experience with these cars complain about the fact they were not incredible to drive, even if these owners exist I am willing to bet they are in a very low single percentage.

The cars you crave for exist in older models, they are still available for anyone to enjoy, lower HP, non hybrid assisted, heaps on the market.

As for your comment in relation to light cars, I own race cars and race them, I am not a pro because nobody’s paying me to drive them I am the opposite of a pro because I pay myself to drive LOL having said that I am ok behind the wheel.
Actual weight is one thing, feeling that said weight is another, for example, the Revuelto feels as heavy and as agile as my HuracanPerformante which is a much lighter car, if it makes sense what I am saying, the 296 feels much lighter on its feet than the HuracanPerformante , I know none of these cars are as light as dedicated stripped out race cars but that’s not what we are discussing here, we are talking about street cars which you could occasionally enjoy on tracks if you so desire.

As for light street cars which are underpowered, I do have a GT4RS and a 992 GT3RS and while they are very enjoyable and in the right hands they can be difficult to mess with on a track both lack the explosiveness of the SF90 or the 296 out of corners and the sure-footed stability of the Performante, the GT3RS is scalpel precise and tactile but lacks the excitement and straight line speed, I do like tracking it on smaller tighter circuits on larger circuits with longer straights I wish it had more power.

Power (at least to me) is very addictive and I would rather have it than not, as an example, with no bias, tomorrow it’s Sunday and I will wake up very early in the morning to go for a drive alone on some twisty roads as far as possible from the civilisation and I am shuffling in my brain which car to drive, at this stage out of the 7 cars I have available at home I am leaning towards the 296, it being the most versatile and fun overall for that particular drive, on shorter drives I would take the GT3RS, if some highways, longer stretches, wider roads I would take the Revuelto, also the Revuelto is extremely thirsty and I will need few gas stations along the route (another downside of the V12) but overall I always tend to grab the 296 or the SF90 when the car is home (not home at the moment).

I obviously love all my cars and I am not biased, I have no brand loyalty, I do have more Ferraris than other brands because they have greater variety to offer other than that I love all cars but when faced with a choice I tend to go for something that’s powerful, hybrid and feels lighter.

I highly suggest you try all these cars before you form an opinion otherwise it’s very very difficult to understand how they behave and feel and most importantly how they make YOU feel, I always let my friends drive my cars for these reasons alone, if you have access to any of the cars try them out you might be surprised how your opinions might change.

 

I agree that for some, a darker color would lessen the visual impacts from things that may be considered disjointed while others may like the new design language. It should also be noted that nobody would ever really "feel" the difference between this and the SF90 in which case, it may be a better case to buy a barely used SF90 while you can and save a few hundred grand at the same time. There's always the next generation...

 

I agree …but you have those who feel better about themselves with the newer model..)))

 

We agree ferraris drive great and take your point that there is measured weight and feel of weight. . I also have varied cars, 9 in total now the only ferrari being a 512BBI. For those of us who can afford maybe 1 "exotic" ferrari has strayed and I yearn for an italian in the vein of a Gt3. The 700 odd hp modern ferrai motors make before hybrid is imo more than plenty esp if the car weights in the low 3000lbs range. But then my favorite backroad drive is still to this day a lotus elise. There is something about the immediacy of a truly light car, from the wheel to brakes etc you just cant fake, esp on a tight twisty road. Highway ability for me is somewhat irrelevant as relisticaly youre not really going that fast on a highway and for me other cars are more appropriate.

Some cars like the BBi are just evocative and fun and can be pushed hard on road yet still remain within bounds of sanity if not legality, but I barely use it. Mostly its the elise for backroads and the track car for track, because imo if you really want to use a car these days track is where its at. Mostly I make the effort to go to WGI because it has everything and great flow. While power is great and excess power greater still, its also very much a crutch and there is tremendous pleasure to be had in driving a car to its limit, finding that alst 1% or fraction of a %. Thats one of the reasons why i think so many accomplished drivers like miata, although to me there too buzzy and eys some power is nice.

the rpff for me is that at an open track day (ie not a de event) you'll find everything running from cup cars to you name it, hardly ever a ferrari occasionally an old challenge car. But you will find plenty of well moded caymans Gt3 cup cars new Gt3 Rs so its not necessarily cost keeping the ferraris at bay. i guess i hanker for somehtign in the mold of a 250 swb which in its day was a superb car on road, driveable to track and eminently suitable on track. If prche can make a gt3 then so can ferrari, to me that means no hybrids strippign excess weight and relistic consumables. A pista is not that.

As an aside, regardless of the manufacturer it woudl also be good to buy cars that are durable and last the test of time. That's why singer does so well now that porches are screen driven tech cars. Its one of the reasons why the GMD cars are so appealing, yes for a price (ferrari could do something for under a million?)

Which brings us to a carerra Gt vs 918. That a carerra Gt stands the test of time, the 918 is just old tech as is a P1. The 296 in 10 years sadly will just be old tech. For me I can buy a a car i love something totaly compelling and keep it on to forever however tong that will be. That 848 sans hybrid and about 500lbs could be it. Clearly I'm not a ferrari customer and they don't care for the likes of me as a customer. Just my 02C. Im sure they are a great fun on road and for a few laps. As tot he track the only newer "exotic" i've tracked somewhat intensively was a a factory mclaren 570 GT4. It was effective to a degree, but as an experience seriously lacked.

 

Totally agree. Some of the more recent designs don't do it for me, but this car is so aggressive looking. I love the SP3 and this car is very similar design wise and the more I look at it the more I like it.

 

I guess Ferrari could make a GT3 like car but their preferred model range is different, I am a relatively new Ferrari customer and not familiar with all their older models, have they ever had a GT3 like product in their range aside of the VS models at the end of the line of their mid level production series?

 

I, for one, feel better at the next generation for a couple of reasons.

Hopefully the first gen glitches have been worked out. SF90 was first hybrid of this type (LaFerrari was a different animal). There were plenty of issues. Same with 296 (second iteration of hybrid tech). If I’m to purchase an SF90, it would have to be latest year model and identical to what I would spec.

This leads to the second reason to order new model: from my perspective, these cars are ludicrously expensive new or used. I generally keep and drive my cars. So I want it to be exactly how I want it. Not for resale but what do I want to see and drive.

But I don’t want the first off the assembly line. I put a deposit in for an 849TR Spider and am very early in the list but I’ll pass and work my way down for probably a mid model specimen so these gremlins are worked out (hopefully).

 

The closest Ferrari came to a GT3 was the Challenge Stradale. That Ferrari depending on where you live 2004 for North America but you would likely be ROW as a 2003 model introduction. Even then the Ferrari paddle shift was slow compared to a modern DCT shift experience. Ferrari didn't offer a 3 pedal version back then for the Stradale. Though at that time the Porsche GT3 clutch was excessively heavy. However the big difference was the width of the vehicles with the 996 based Porsche being much more narrow. The !984 Ferrari Testarossa set the tone for wide Ferrari models and Ferrari continued that trend ever since then.
Ferrari came to believe more power was the solution for every problem at the expense of incrementally more weight.

 

I would love to try drive one but I don’t know anyone here who owns one.

 

The steep potential depreciation on such a polarizing aesthetically vehicle has to be the real question to the design team.

I said this in the other thread on here. When you go back and read the initial comments about the 296, SF90 or 12C they’re nowhere near as harsh and divisive. Sure there are some critics but not like this car.

Ferrari has to start asking the hard questions because a lot of us are voting with our feet and wallets on their choices.

 

In all fairness, the sf90 was and is a dog. Just an inflated F8 with poor lines and hybrid stuffed in, that anyone bought it is a sign of the power of the brand, the depreciation shows even ferrari can go too far and customers are not forever. The 12c in the flesh is a boat, maybe they should have called it the 12c denali.

Yes this new car has some lines of and seems to lack cohesion, but it has a freshness to it and some parts have great form. I keep thinking that if it had a v12 and heaven forbid a stick, then it would be like the 288 reincarnate. Lets not forget the 288 was car Ferrari thought was too raw to sell 280 of, and they were rudely surprised by demand. Not every ferrari customer is looking for a heavily overpowered Gt car. The f40 took that raw extreme theme further, and arguably the f50 despite its ho hum styling took the race car for the road even further. Then came the enzo where imo they lot the plot and went all tech. dont even talk about the :LAF it looks stunning but its now just old trech.

Part oif the value of new ferraris is the strong secondary market for 5-20 year old cars. That market is going to be not nearly the same for these new hybrid tech cars. The secondary buyer is interesting and values the attributes of the cars differently, far more so on the experience ad longevity model. One reason there is a robust cottage industry in turning F1 box 360s and 430s into manuals.

imo Mclaren has been smart to keep the 750 non hybrid, and Aston is starting to make the beautiful and raw type of cars we used to associate with ferrai even if they're not nearly so well dynamically developed, at least not eyt. .

 

In all fairness, that is a comment with which actual owners who drive these disagree.

 

Yeah, what an absolutely absurd statement. I loved my first SF90 (non-AF) so much I bought an AF Stradale in my ideal spec. I have owned almost all of the latest Ferrari production cars from 488-Current with the exception of a Roma/Porto platform. Two F8s, two 812 cars, two 488 cars, one 296 and now I am on my second SF90. I absolutely adore the SF90 platform and think it's arguably one of the best cars out there.

I also own the other big brands with equal exposure. I've owned more Lamborghini and Porsche vehicles than I could ever think of naming. McLaren and Aston I sprinkle in occasionally as well. I currently drive an Artura coupe as a daily and it's a wonderful car.

Hybrid cars are the way IMO. I will continue to buy them as long as I can afford to. Just not the ugly ones...

 

I’m pretty close to swapping our F8 for a 296 GTS which I then plan to trade for the 849TR. I want to experiment with the hybrid and the spider before going in big on the TR…

But not selling the 812 even though we have a C12 coming soon. We get too attached to our cars!

 

I’ll own another 812SF at some point. They’re that good.

 

Perry the Ferrari!
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Or was it the other way around?
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Horrible joke sorry

 

Funny how opinions differ. The Elise is one of the most underwhelming and overestimated cars I have ever driven. I did not mind the fact that it was not particularly quick (there were quicker version but of course not supercar quick), but rather that it was so old school that it became obsolete. The steering was unnecessarily heavy and slow, making the front end seem sluggish on turn in. The balance was understeery for my liking. The unassisted brakes were so-so at best and in the wet you always were fearful of a lock-up. Not to mention that you needed to be a contortionist to get in and out (funnily enough it was fine when you were sitting in it).

Clearly the direction of newer, quicker and more technologically advanced cars is not to your liking. No worries, there are plenty of older models to choose from.

PS: The LaFerrari remains cutting edge to this day.

 

dont know which Elsie you drove.some people put too wide tires on the front, steering is sublime, direct and notably unfiltered. The only car I have driven with better steering was a Renault r5 turbo 2. The brakes are not un assisted either.

yes could be edgy in the wet. As to speed depends on the road, for backroads I can safely say a well driven 458 can’t keep up.

yes an Elise is crude, the motor is like a bucket of bolts and speed comes with getting and keeping it on the boil, that’s sort of the challenge and reward.

all of those attributes are what the gmd t50 and t33 have in spades. It’s not about modern vis old school it’s about vision.

I guess I’m an old motorcycle rider and to me the machine becoming an extension of you body and an expression of your mind and will is something. Great bike does so well. Very few cars get close an Elise being one. Too
Many moderns are quick but artficial.

 

One of the dumbest comments I’ve ever read on FChat and I’ve read a tone of dumb comments but that one takes the cake.

 

Starting from the end, different strokes for different folks. I get what you are saying and I respect it, even though I have different preferences.

Regarding the Elise, I think it was a Series 2 with the Rover 160 engine. I maintain that the steering was heavy and slow. I like lightning quick steering racks and cars that are guided by the touch of the fingertips and minimal movement and effort. It is a fundamental driving philosophy I guess. Taking a car by the scruff of its neck and getting physical with it seems crude and unsophisticated to me. It was good fun with slower machined in our youth, but superior and quicker machines require more sophistication and precision. Acknowledging that it is a flawed analogy on my part, I always admired how Prost or Button drove their F1 stallions barely moving the steering wheel. Taking it one step further I am in awe with how fighter pilots pull such amazing manoeuvres with a slight tilt of the stick, just as I was turning a 10 tonne tank turret by simply touching the commander's stick when I was serving in the Forces.

To cut this drivel short, my philosophy is that the machine should be working with and for you, not against you. Which is exactly the opposite of a biker's philosophy who has to move his/her whole body to steer the motorcycle. Thus, it is natural that we like different things.

 

I’d hang on to the F8 since it is quite reliable. Then sell it if that is your ultimate plan. My F8 spider has close to 60,000 miles and runs great.

The 2nd generation hybrid turbo is going to be better than the 1st generation. Buy it a bit later in the production cycle . Smart move to allow for the factory to sort out the early niggles.

You will have the new 12c to drive anyway! Congrats!

(I’m too inpatient and will buy the earliest build offered)